this post was submitted on 08 May 2024
1 points (100.0% liked)

UK Politics

3023 readers
160 users here now

General Discussion for politics in the UK.
Please don't post to both [email protected] and [email protected] .
Pick the most appropriate, and put it there.

Posts should be related to UK-centric politics, and should be either a link to a reputable news source for news, or a text post on this community.

Opinion pieces are also allowed, provided they are not misleading/misrepresented/drivel, and have proper sources.

If you think "reputable news source" needs some definition, by all means start a meta thread. (These things should be publicly discussed)

Posts should be manually submitted, not by bot. Link titles should not be editorialised.

Disappointing comments will generally be left to fester in ratio, outright horrible comments will be removed.
Message the mods if you feel something really should be removed, or if a user seems to have a pattern of awful comments.

[email protected] appears to have vanished! We can still see cached content from this link, but goodbye I guess! :'(

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
1
Natalie Elphicke: Former Tory MP defects to Labour (www.bbc.co.uk)
submitted 4 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
48 comments fedilink hide all child comments
top 48 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Not really a fan of her being in the Labour party. Think that was quite unnecessary -- Starmer is going to win the next election with or without this woman. And what specifically about the Labour Party's aims and values resonate with her? When you join the Labour party as a member, it's not like subscribing to Amazon Prime. It means you have to actually agree to the aims and values of the Labour Party as described in Clause IV, which begins "The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party," and includes things like "promotes equality of opportunity" and "delivers people from ... prejudice". Does she agree with any of that? I'm very confused as to how a right wing ERG member could possibly want to join a democratic socialist party, let alone agree with its broader aims and values.

The merit of permitting her to cross the aisle and sit as a Labour MP is obvious, but so is the cost. I didn't like it when all those antisemites joined under Corbyn's leadership, and I don't like this now.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Her being allowed to join Labour says just as much about them as it does the Tories. Labour being seen as a safe haven for very far right Tories is not a good look.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

She's not standing at the next election so they probably just thought it was a free hit on the Tories with basically no consequences in the medium to long term. Fair enough IMO.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

noted woman's safety campaigner, rosie duffield, is suddenly very quiet this morning.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

insert defection/defecation comment here.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/starmer-welcomes-right-wing-tory-labour

One Tory MP tweeted today that it was impossible to find a Conservative in the Commons who regarded themselves as further to the right and many were outraged at her hypocrisy.

Succeeding her husband Charlie in the Dover seat after he was convicted of sex offences, she attacked her husband’s victims and was suspended from the Commons because she had “improperly sought to influence judicial proceedings” in relation to the case.

Sounds like a lovely lady.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Insane how people are defending this just because it harms the Tories. Do labour supporters have no principles at all?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yes, the principle is 'Labour governments are good, do things that make Labour governments more likely.'

Think about it: the message Sunak is trying this week is: 'voting Labour will lead to chaos'. Yet another Tory MP defecting totally undermines that argument, because it paints the Conservatives as being out of control. That's a win for Labour.

Secondly, what has Labour's message been since Sunak took power? It's been: 'Sunak is weak'. This makes him look weak.

Sunak is convinced banging on about small boats will save him. A Tory MP quitting because he hasn't stopped the boats undermines one of the few lines he thinks works. That leaves him with nothing to say, making him again looks chaotic and weak.

The downside for Labour is that Natalie Elphicke is clearly a nutter. But, that doesn't detract from any of the above. Most people have never heard of her. She's only going to be a Labour MP for a few months. So, overall it's a win for Labour.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

What's the point in a LABOUR government if the party is willing to take the support of people who are proudly anti-worker? What good will it do to be a government of tories with red ties?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

She's not anti-worker she's pro-worker. She's a complete nutcase but she's not actually against British people like some of the Tories. They seem to think that anyone with less than six figures in their bank account should be ignored, she seems to care about British people. As long as you're not too different you're okay in her eyes.

She deserves a slightly less bad circle of hell.

My point is if you're going to criticize her, and there's a lot to criticize her about, at least criticize her actual beliefs rather than just making things up that aren't true.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

People have said exactly this about every Labour government, right down to the cliche about the ties. And yet, somehow, despite being Tories, all those LABOUR goverments somehow did a whole load of very Labour things! Amazing!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Maybe you're right and I hope you are, but I can't trust a 'democratic socialist' party that repeatedly turns it's back on promises to workers and allows hard right sexual assault apologists into the party

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

It's perfect for Labour. They get to shower Rishi in shit until the general election and then quietly deselect her or move her aside for an actual candidate. Why wouldn't you?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

My main worry is that she's just so mad that she might cause trouble for us even in the limited time she's going to be in the PLP. If I were in Starmer's shoes, I'd have had her sign some sort of contract promising not to speak to the press, at all, ever.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Well, if she does then Starmer can just kick her out again. He gets to have his cake and eat it that way; all of the embarrassment for Sunak of having an MP cross the floor, and the chance to performatively sack an MP that crosses a line.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Principles

Maybe its hard for the current labour party to understand that, but the party of the workers should not welcome hardcore right wingers no matter what the circumstances are

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Principles

but the party of the workers should not welcome hardcore right wingers no matter what the circumstances are

I think you've got principles and policies mixed up. What you've described is a policy.

A principle for a party of workers might be: To champion workers rights for the betterment of society.

A policy for that principle could be: to not accept right wing nutters into your party because they are inherently anti worker.

But equally another policy could be: publicly humilate incumbent anti worker government in an election cycle by accepting a defector from their party knowing full well it will be temporary because they're standing down in the next election.

In a crucial election year one policy is infinitely better than the other.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

This government don't need any more humiliation, this only humiliated Labour by having a former member of the government be allowed to sit among them

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

There are two points here, and I'm going to sidestep whether her joining Labour is a good idea and focus on the other.

This government don't need any more humiliation

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with this. We have seen repeatedly that people's memories are like goldfish. You have to keep it up for an extended period to stick, otherwise we will end up with the news cycle burying positive news for boosting the Tories.

All it takes is a bad angle of a bacon sandwich, and the press vultures will completely blow up any negative thing they can to derail Labour.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

That's not how the news cycle sees it. If we are to believe the left wing rhetoric that the entire media is against Labour always and forever then the media proclaiming a win for Starmer and a humiliation for Sunak speaks volumes. And that's what most of the electorate will see as well.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This is nothing but arrogant posturing. Who put you in charge of what the party of the workers should and shouldn't do?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Because it is a direct contradiction for the party of workers to welcome people with anti worker views?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

What is an 'anti worker view'?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Accusing union activists who heckled her for showing up at a protest in support of P&O workers who her government failed to support of being 'hard-left militants' might be such an example

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That's not an anti worker view, it's a description, either accurate or not, of a few shouty people at a protest.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Slurs against the supporters of the organisations who won workers all their rights isn't anti worker?

How about repeatedly voting on bills to reduce the rights of workers to collectively bargain for better treatment? Or does she have to shoot striking people on the picket line for you to accept she doesn't care about labour

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The fact that Labour are letting people like this in is hilarious. A vote for Starmer's Labour is a vote for Conservative rule, albeit with a tint of red.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Well, given that she's not running again and there's no Labour approval process for just saying shit, you're just talking to talk. Good job not letting even a bad opportunity to soapbox go to waste!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

How is he wrong? She will still be a party member, she will likely still hold the housing advisory position she's been given and be out on the streets as a face of labour campaigning. No right wingers should be welcome in labour, it says 'democratic socialist' on the membership card for a reason

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sir Keir welcomed her to the party, asking Mr Sunak "what is the point of this failed government staggering on" when "the Tory MP for Dover on the front line of small boats crisis says the prime minister cannot be trusted with our borders and joins Labour".

😮‍💨

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

So, your position is... what? That the government should stagger on? That they can be trusted to deal with immigration?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think the point is that Elphicke's criticisms of Tory immigration policy are very different from what most Labour voters would like to see. I'd like to see a processing centre in Calais to make it easier to seek legal refugee status. She just wants to pull up the drawbridge. By saying this, Keir is condoning her messaging on immigration and I don't like that.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Starmer isn't condoning her message; it's the other way around. She's been a critic of the Conservative immigration policy, and now she's effectively saying 'Labour's immigration policy is better' - which it is. There's not the slightest hint that Labour's policy, which is much like what you've said you'd like to see, has changed.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You're better than this,

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

You are hearing dog whistles where there are no dog whistles.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Just a reminder that this woman committed a breach of the code of conduct for mps for trying to influence a trial that her husband was convicted of sexual assault in. That's on top of her being far right.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

This is an utterly bizarre defection. Going to be a lot of consternation in her local CLP if they're expected to go doorknocking for a prominent Boris Johnson supporter!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Apparently, she's the first Labour member of the ERG!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Maybe I woke up more cynical this morning, but...

Hoping to save her job, much?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Apparently not, as she's not standing again! Says something about how much Sunak's own MPs hate him that, rather than quietly quitting in a few months, they're knifing him on the way out by defecting.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I think it really shows how far right Labour has shifted that they even accepted the move

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

Copying from a comment I made when the last one defected, it's really Labour accepts a free seat in the commons. Being principled is nice but ultimately meaningless if you have no power to enact those principles.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Surely she won't be allowed to stand for Labour at the next election?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I've no idea how it works

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

The Labour Party has already gone through the process of selecting a candidate for that seat. If she'd defected before that had happened she could have put herself forward for reselection (and there's a different process for that), but that ship has long sailed. The candidate is the candidate, and it's not her.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

She already announced she won't be standing again

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Usually when MPs defect the receiving party tries to find them a safe seat to defend come the election. Otherwise what would the point be?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

There are hardly any seats left which haven't selected a Labour candidate at this point. All of the safe seats were done ages ago. The handful that are left vacant are all the absolute no-hopers for Labour where nobody really cares who the candidate is because they're not going to win anyway.

Any detectors hoping to go that route have long since missed the boat. They'd have had to have jumped ship a year or two ago.