this post was submitted on 05 May 2024
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About the bear... (lemmy.sdf.org)
submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
125 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

So, I'm just assuming we've all seen the discussions about the bear.
Personally I feel that this is an opportunity for everyone to stop and think a little about it. The knee-jerk reaction from many men seems to be something along the lines of "You would choose a dangerous animal over me? That makes me feel bad about myself." which results in endless comments of the "Akchully... according to Bayes theorem you are much more likely to..." kind.
It should be clear by now that it doesn't lead to good places.
Maybe, and I'm open to being wrong, but maybe the real message is women saying: "We are scared of unknown men."
Then, if that is the message intended, what do we do next? Maybe the best thing is just to listen. To ask questions. What have you experienced to make you feel that way?
I firmly believe that the empathy we give lays a foundation for other people being willing to have empathy for the things we try to communicate.
It doesn't mean we should feel bad about ourselves, but just to recognize that someone is trying to say something, and it's not a technical discussion about bears.
What do you think?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (7 children)

Am I not allowed to be upset because I hate that this is the world we're living in? My knee-jerk reaction does make me feel bad about myself because I know that even if I'd never be part of the problem, I'll still be judged as though I am, based on my height, weight, looks etc. I've caused people fear or intimidation or concern just by being around in the public sphere, where I'd never hurt a fly but people don't know that.

I've understood for decades that women have absolutely legit issues with men, and I've done my part to correct bad behaviour in my fellow men, wherever possible.

I've been an "unknown man" all my life and I've seen the effects of it on women, and it's always made me feel awful. And it still does. I hate this "man or bear" conversation.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (4 children)

If you were a person you'd be allowed to be upset. But you're a man, men aren't people. They don't have feelings, only women do.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

How about being better and validating others persons feelings instead of cheap sarcasm?

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

In corporate contexts, black women feel about white men the way that women felt about bears in the first question... and this prompted a similarly negative reaction from white women.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

maybe the real message is women saying: “We are scared of unknown men.”

It's not unknown men, it's alone with men, period. Most sexual assaults are not stranger-rapes; they're sexual assaults being committed by a person that was known to the victim. Often it's an intimate partner, a date, a close friend, or someone that they went to class/church/etc. with. If people you know aren't safe, then how could you trust strangers?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Strangers are more statistically safe.

Also, most folks are horrible judges of character and intention. Scumbags are usually the most charming, outgoing, and well-liked people, and yet most people think the awkward weirdo in the corner bothering nobody is the 'threat'.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I mean in that case No One Is Safe

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

No one with no witnesses, at least. And there's the issue, isn't it? It's not, "would you rather be in a crowded bar with a mix of men and women, --or-- would you rather be in a crowded bar full of bears".

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What the duck is going on?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

If you took it personally, you might be part of the problem

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I take it personally because I hate that this is the world we're living in. I've been all too aware my whole life of the concern women can have around men, including me, and I've always done my best to mitigate that, and try and make other men understand too.

I take it personally because I've been living with this knowledge for decades and nothing seems to be getting better, and this conversation makes me sad because I wish, I wish with all my heart that it wasn't the case.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I take it personally because I hate that this is the world we’re living in

Literally not personal. It's not about you, specifically.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (4 children)

So am I not allowed to have feelings of sadness because I am personally painted with the same brush as people who make the world a worse place, and their actions lead me to be judged by the bar they set?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yeah, it seems the guys that heard this and just said "yeah, that tracks" have already done the thought process/critical analysis that this movement is trying to evoke

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

My take is that the people that would benefit the most from the introspection this hypothetical is meant to illicit are the furthest from being able to take it to heart. It works better as a way to make the worst people around you out themselves, so now you know to avoid them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

My grandparents would say something similar to this TikToker about certain "kinds" of people, and I rightfully consider them fucking abhorrent for it. I consider someone who would unironically say this kind of shit to be the same kind of abhorrent.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

Okay so what you're getting at is that this kind of speech is violent. It acknowledges a conflict and seeks to further a particular side through the adoption of defensive behaviours and attitudes. And you're taking a position that all violence is bad. But you're wrong. Violence, as you and I are defining it here, is a necessary part of self defence. Violence in self defence can put a stop to violence in aggression. A pacifist who is concerned with all violence, rather than just their own, has a moral obligation to defend the weak, using violence if necessary.

Your racist grandparents were members of the oppressor class, seeking to do violence against the oppressed, and were therefore contributing to the cycle of violence. But the woman who wrote this article, is trying to stop the cycle of violence by engaging in a defensive form of violence against an oppressor class in response to violence by that class. That's not the same thing.

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