this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2023
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Remember kids, Tankies wants to undermine democracy - same as facists.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Define tankie. I've seen that work be used in so many different contexts that it seems to have lost all meaning. This are word has been used to describe so many different things by people that don't know what it means that now it has lost all meaning.

Similar case for the word "Authoritarian"Same story goes for the word "authoritarian". I've seen that word being defined as "When government uses it's authority to stop you from doing something", but by that logic any society with laws and law enforcement is authoritarian. This are word has been used to describe so many different things by people that don't know what it means that now it has lost all meaning.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think most of you need to worry way less about sounding sufficiently the "right kind" of leftist and focus more on promoting leftism through action. More than half the "tankie" discourse is, at best, a needless distraction from actual progress. Lose your buzzwords and stop the ideological purity pissing contest and actually put in the work in your communities instead, goddamn.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

No fuck that bullshit. The largest leftist majority is aligned with non-revolutionary socialist democracy... Tankies are actively undermining the largest leftist group by refusing to partake in democracy. And now WE need to stop complaining and work together and not be so pure. Fuck off with this absolute disgrace of a discourse. The group that controls the purity of its members by refusal to partake in progress through democratic means are tankies. They want it all to go down in flames. Their idea of progress is revolutionary uprising.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Hey everyone, just a reminder:

  • Yes Nazis are also bad, we don't have Nazis pop up anywhere near as often as Tankies
  • We remove and ban Nazis too
  • We're aware of Lemmy's main code writers being ML's, and it's not great.
  • Please report any bigot bullshit, or fascist/tankie dogwhistles.
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm not against the hostility being shown towards tankies here... but it should be remembered that there are a lot of well-meaning and well-intentioned people who get caught up in the technocratic ideology tankies buy into. Let's face it... if you google anything about leftism you are more likely to end up reading about Marx and Engels than Bakunin or Goldman - and right-wing propaganda is as perfectly fine with conflating everything "leftist" with the technocratic (ie authoritarian) left as tankies themselves are.

If we are leaving some doors open for fascists and capitalists who turn against their programming, we should remember to do the same for tankies.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The stupid part is that the third-way labor parties and social democrats are doing a much better job at socialism than any Leninist or Maoist tradition. But every leftist space on the internet seems to hate these "fake socialists" as much as anything else. That's really all the evidence I need that these people are more interested in revolution fetish fan service than anything resembling actual statecraft.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

The stupid part is that the third-way labor parties and social democrats are doing a much better job at socialism

Well... no, not really. It's not that leftists hate social democrats... every anarchist I've ever spoken to appreciates the effort of people like Bernie and AOC - it's just that we understand what they are allowed to do and what they aren't. The political establishment will allow them to protect capitalism from itself by restraining it's most obscene aspects it to a certain extent (and even such meagre self-protective measures are a bridge to far for the right-wing hivemind)... but that is all they could ever achieve.

Remember - no matter what the media hysterically screeches - the term socialism has a very hard and uncompromising meaning... a condition wherein the workers control the means of production. If it doesn't measure up to that or only pretends to measure up to that, we can't call it socialism with a straight face.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

As someone who's read Marx and lenin, and Bakunin and Goldman... not to mention kroptikin(god damn that guy bullshat his way through conquest of bread)

The anarchists always decry practical steps that are needed for the transition, but they have a poverty of ideas when it comes to propose better alternative solutions to the problems faced by actual revolutions. And frankly, reading their literature I understand why. They're still hung up on ideas and values and not material analysis much more than MLs. They're still trapped within liberal hegemonic thought though they are against liberal capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Neither the anarchist revolutions in Ukraine nor Spain seemed to lack "practical steps"... what they did lack, however, was practical steps for turning into a reactionary elite as soon as they seized power - something the Bolsheviks and their ideological spawn seems to have no problems with.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

They absolutely did, their inability to coordinate and make compromises during wartime absolutely led to their failures as revolutions.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Oh... being (respectively) stabbed in the back by Bolsheviks and being sabotaged by Stalin had absolutely nothing to do with it, eh?

No, tankie... I don't think you've read any anarchist literature at all.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, tankie… I don’t think you’ve read any anarchist literature at all.

so now we are gonna start calling names. Cool, very mature.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Well, then... what do you think we should call them? Do remember... it was Marxist-Leninists themselves that came up with that term.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yes, the Spanish anarchists were unsuccessful because Stalin, and not because they refused to be integrated with the popular front(which even the fucking liberals joined), including militarily until the war was already well lost, which made coordinated actions against the fascists with the popular front impossible

The lessons of the Spanish civil war dont reflect well on the anarchist movement there.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, the Spanish anarchists were unsuccessful because Stalin

Yes. That's why, tankie. And no... they didn't lose because they decided not to take orders from your outrageously incompetent and cynical two-faced realpolitking fetish object Stalin.

Okay?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Okay so how much did you actually study the Spanish civil war because this comes off as really ignorant? Like, what books have you read on the subject that have led you to the conclusion that Stalin was controlling all of the Spanish Republicans except for the anarchists? You seem to deify Stalin much more than me, who generally considers him a very flawed leader who was a better revolutionary, but doesn't consider him some octopus with his tentacles in literally everything.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not the one demonstrating weaponized ignorance on the subject, tankie - you are.

But hey... bring it on.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But hey… bring it on.

It is a self dunk to get combative when someone asks you what books you've read on a subject you're opining about

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why would I compare books with you, tankie? You've already claimed to have read things you so obviously haven't.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Hey, just cause I disagree with their analysis doesn't mean I haven't read it.

For example, forming a secret vanguard party isn't the way to anarchism, and the Kronstadt rebellion wasn't the pinnacle of revolution, even though the Soviets fucked up their response to it.

And you would know what I'm referring to if you've read some of their main works.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

forming a secret vanguard party isn’t the way to anarchism

Gee, you needed a book to tell you why nobody except your ilk gives a flying fuck about your precious vanguardism, eh? Most people don't need a book to see the obvious.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I swear almost every American election cycle, some weird word will start popping up everywhere. like how all the trump supporters started saying cuck out of nowhere in 2015-2016

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Tankie has been a thing for over half a century. The Soviets used tanks(from other countries) to invade and crush antisoviet revolutions/protests in Hungary and Czechoslovakia.

This was considered shocking for some communists and other leftists while some communists supported those actions. Those who supported this "intervention" were called tankies, in order to differentiate them from the non tank invasion supporting communists.

In Greece(my country), which was in the "West", this event caused the split of the greek communist party(KKE) into 2 separate parties, KKE(Moscow controlled tankies) and KKE "interior"(weak ass soy communists who cant stomach the use of tanks in order to create a better tomorrow).

KKE "interior" kinda eventually became SYRIZA which surprisingly won the elections in 2015(breaking the 2 party status quo). Then the EU decided that the greek people decided poorly and punished them. So when the greek people decided correctly(elected a right wing government), the EU rewarded them. Carrots and sticks make the world go around. Thats how you make a majority leftist country, into a right wing one.

PS Greek debt is as high as it has ever been but Greece issued negative interest bonds. Tell me again how is the economy supposed to work? Noone talks about the greek debt anymore, it's a non issue, Greece has been accepted into the EU's infinite money glitch scheme.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Tankie has been a thing for over half a century.

Disingenuous in regards to their point.

"Cuckold" had been in use for a long time before it's cultural adoption in 2015 too. They weren't disputing the appropriate use the term, they were clearly commenting on the shift from appropriately-applied usage to the saturation within the cultural lexicon as a buzzword. Why is this thread full of disingenuous asides and non-sequiturs?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Well i and other people that i know were using the term for at least 10 years. I even had a friend break up partly because the other person was a tankie. Maybe the term was less common in other countries.

Also tankie definition hasnt changed nor has been appropriated as a general slur. It has always meant communist who supports authoritarian policies.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

These threads are odd to me, considering how many people call all communists tankies. The word seems to be used by anarchists, conservatives, communists, anti-communists, and more, and every person has a slightly different definition.

Half the people here could consider the other half to be the tankies everyone is mad at.

To be clear this isn't me saying "be nice to the tankies" this is me saying "the overuse of this word is confusing the shit out of me."

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Maybe it's just the circles I run in, but I understand "tankie" to mean leftists who think Soviet/Maoist/vanguard-party styles of Communist revolution/rule were good, actually, to the point of denying any bad things they did/do as "Western propaganda".

Given the red scare in the US, our ability as a whole to use any sort of leftist political labels accurately across the population is basically non-existent, so I do understand the frustration by both tankies and non-tankie leftists about how the term gets used lately, especially in produce circles on social media.

But again maybe that's just me. I don't know if I would consider myself a communist, but I do consider myself as a yet undetermined variety of socialist, if that helps at all.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It became confusing when liberals learnt of the word - now they hurl the word at anyone who dares to remind them that being pro-capitalist is still a right-wing thing to be.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Capital co-opting and perversing anticapitalist rhetoric to its own benefit, in my Lemmy? It's more likely than you think.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

...because none of those groups are Tankies and they are all unified against Tankies.

Tankies aren't socialists or communists (not that those two things are the same either). They are the purist ideologues of communism, where compromise is defeat. Rampant in telling you why you're wrong, and why only the purest form of communism will bring nirvana. All without understanding the consequences of what they propose.

Even the Communists don't want them on their side.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I think you kinda missed my point. Sure, socialists and communists don't like tankies, but conservatives think the socialists and communists who don't like tankies are tankies. They aren't "unified against tankies", they don't agree who, what, and where "tankies" are.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm an anarchist, we don't call anybody tankies. Tankies is a term coming from the UK i think the 80s some eastern european nation was taken over by the USSR and some Brittish came out in support of it. So they were called tankies.

These political fighting words need to be layed to rest. Communists hate me as much as anybody else but I'd rather engage on the idea level instead of ad hominem attacks and name calling.

I suspect this whole tankie thing might be a coordinated propaganda campaign geared at discrediting communists and at the same time creating tension between them and other leftits. I suspect this as this whole infighting over small differences doesn't lead to a victory for the left but effectively disables and neutralizes it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsqE9kEsDVY

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I’m an anarchist, we don’t call anybody tankies.

Speak for yourself... anarchists are very prone to using that term to describe the technocratic left. I know, I'm one of them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Then there's folks like me who have no idea what the term means, you're not alone in your confusion.

Edit: thanks for all the replies folks! TIL

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Based AF

Fuck tankies

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