this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2024
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122
Is it worth the solar panels I'm getting? (lemmy.world)
submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
63 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I'm sorry for posting this here. There isn't a solar panel instance, nor did I see anything for electricians. I know there's been a lot of gripe with certain solar companies (solgen being in litigation, and others) but I didn't hear much about freedom forever, since they're new to Seattle area where I'm doing this. Reddit seems to hate this company. But the price seems alright. I'm paying $22k for 7.4kw but getting it down to 15k after the state stipend. Less than $3 a watt which I'm guessing is really good. I'm planning to pay it off in 2 or 3 years. Not the full 25 which will cost me so much more. Can anyone point me in the right direction and if I'm making the right decision?

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

What the fuck is that “freedom advantage” for >$300?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

It's the new deal ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Relevant article:

https://time.com/6565415/rooftop-solar-industry-collapse/

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Jesus Christ America are you OK?

I had 13ish kilowatt solar installed for 3.8k AUD... Why is it so expensive over there?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago

It's the grift.

These companies charge $10-15K to act as the General Contractor to sub out the work.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

So long as you understand that you're paying out the ass for a company to do it. It's actually very simple to do yourself, and if you're willing to do it yourself for $20,000 you can get 20 KW of solar panels, 12 KW of inverter output and 32 KWh of battery storage from signature solar.

It's not difficult to do, it's not difficult to do properly and to code and safely. The amount that these people charge for the labor is fucking asinine and wildly out of line with the difficulty of the work done.

I have at this point installed three solar systems two for myself and one for a friend all of them have been inspected by Master electricians and passed and the only information I used was solar DIY Forum posts and YouTube videos

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Mam that is tempting. I'm an electrician but I never dove into photovoltaics.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

As the other guy said, the only hard parts for you will be to negotiate staying on the grid or cutting off completely.

I ran all the numbers and you are paying a ridiculous price for solar. You will see it pay it self off in 50 years, which I doubt you will care about at all once you are 50 years older or giving the house to your next of kin.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

What numbers? I ran the numbers to purchase 18 panels with IQ8+ micro inverters, the solar edge inverter, the infrastructure and misc and it came out to just $3-4k under the $15k I'll be paying. That $3-4k covers will be the cost of install and to get me onto PSE's last few 1 to 1 net metering programs.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Your screenshot shows 20k spent. I'm assuming you mean after federal tax rebate. As for what numbers

For example with a goal of about 20k spent This bundle gets you 12Kw of inverter output and 30Kwh of batteries for 11k. Then just grab two Of these solar panel pallets for 28Kw of panels. Or Alternatively go smaller with just one pallet and save a bit. Then ofc you will get the 30% federal tax credit on top of everything

So far as i can see from your invoice you won't have any battery storage, your inverter is less than 4k output. So for the same price you could get 3x the inverter capacity, actually have battery, meaning even during a complete blackout you would still be able to have power, and get 3x as much solar array. Or you could get a similarly sized system for a fraction of the price. EG4 also has a larger inverter than can do the metering if you want that so could trade the 2x pallets for 1x with backfeed inverter

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

OK that's amazing. Thank you for this information. Yes with the rebate I'm paying $15k.

That was my concern, if I do it myself would I still get the rebate. I'll call PSE on Monday and ask if I will get the rebate and if I can also opt into the 1 to 1 net metering.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

You can, they require full wiring diagrams for approval and inspection by a master electrician. One of the setups i did was for PSE in Washington. Federal tax credit counts as well in diy

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'm taking my master exam in 3 weeks lol. How I know so little about photovoltaics is embarrassing. But I can get a diagram and design built easily enough. I'll call them Monday to discuss what they need.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

There's honestly little to learn, it's a DC system so it's a lot more straightforward than some of the nasty that can happen with AC neutral and grounds where and when to bond etc. Positive and negative, use an appropriate sized dc breaker, have a cutoff switch. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Funny enough it's the ac systems I'm comfortable with. Thanks again for all the advice.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If you have a good handle on DC systems and inverters it's not that bad. Hardest part in my experience is figuring things out with your power company if you're staying on grid.

Also at least in the us, check your town and state for rebates and such. A lot of the time these scummy solar companies are double dipping, charging you 20k and also getting a couple k from the gov through solar programs.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yeah it's WAY WAY WAY easier if you DON'T grid tie. Off grid inverters with battery are the way to go. they are basically just a UPS on steroids they can take the grid as an input but they will never feed back into it. Meaning your power company need not be involved at all thankfully.

Honestly you really don't need to be all that familiar with the DC Systems either. There's so many amazing resources out there that will literally hold your hand through the whole process. What kind of cut-offs you need to have, what type of Breakers and where. Pass that just don't swap positive with negative and you're basically good to go it's a shockingly simple system which is why it's so disgusting how much they charge to install it

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

OK I want to look into doing it myself. Where would I start with the resources?

My only reason I wanted to tie to grid is to get in on the NEM that my local energy company offers. A 1 to 1 net metering. I live in Seattle and getting that energy back in the winter is worth it for me

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

Lots of states are turning hostile towards metered solar, I have no doubt Washington will eventually join them so it might not be long-term a good idea. As for resources https://diysolarforum.com/ has a ton as does https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse

As for equipment i can't recommend signature solar enough. I've had plenty of problems with the FedEx freight shipping but they've always been good about making sure everything is taken care of if there's any damage without much fuss (always take pictures of even the smallest box damage on delivery)

For example with a goal of about 20k spent This bundle gets you 12Kw of inverter output and 30Kwh of batteries for 11k. Then just grab two Of these solar panel pallets for 28Kw of panels.

Now ofc in summer you will never use that much BUT you should be sizing your array to account for the winter months rather than solar. If you indeed want to go grid tie you could get one of their bundles with the larger 12k single unit as I'm pretty it can backfeed

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

It's about what I paid for an 8kw system in the northeast. Shave off $500-$1k and you'll be even with me. I got quotes from a dozen companies if that helps. After sifting through new, old companies and "too good to be true" pricing, that's where I landed.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago

Mentioning the obvious things: Remember that depending on your location, you will not get full sunlight everyday of the year. The orientation of your roof and whether it’s pointed toward the sun also matters. If you have any young trees around you, they might grow and cast a shadow on your roof. If you have neighbors, they might plant trees.

You can use Project Sunroof to roughly estimate the average sunlight your location receives during a full year (accounting for weather conditions): https://sunroof.withgoogle.com/

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Isn't that just a 3.8Kw inverter though? You can input up to like 150% or so I think but you're only ever producing a max of 3.8.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I'm supposed to be getting an Enphase IQ8 micro inverter. I can't see a kw rating on that though when I look it up. It looks like they go directly with each panel.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

What’s with the financing? 0%-11%

Is the rate adjustable?

Ask for the cash price and see what the actual interest rate is. Generally the financed price is higher, and the interest rate is low. But if you’re planning to pay it off in 2 years, you might be better off saving up and buying in cash.

That’s just been my experience (oregon, not Washington)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yeah? Maybe. I just want to get in before PSE stops the 1 to 1 net metering.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That makes sense. Can’t you give PSE a call and see what the schedule is?

Otherwise you could check what the cash price is anyway, and use a HELOC or personal loan to get a fixed interest rate (this really only makes sense if you’re serious about paying it off quickly)

But seriously ask about the “cash price”. Because I was shocked at how much more the principle is on the financing offered through the Solar company. It seems solar companies are partnered with financing companies to make the monthly price palatable for larger groups of customers.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yeah he should me what it would cost with a lower interest rate. I hate door to door sales men so I made him work. We say down and calculated every panel, micro inverter, framing, inverter, and permits and it came out to around $11k for just material. I'm paying $4k more for install of it all since I'm only paying 15k with the incentive. They're obviously making more.

I looked everywhere to see if I can get the incentive if I buy and install the panels myself but I couldn't find any details on that. It would turn a 15k system to a 12k system with my own labor

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Good deal. Seems like you’ve got a pretty good grasp of it.

When I got the sales pitch I just leaned into it, and went out and got quotes from 3 others. Compare and contrast!

[–] [email protected] 33 points 6 months ago (1 children)

This blew my mind as an Australian, I had a 9.9kw system installed for about $3200AUD from memory, there was a rebate but I'm unsure how much.

I get a minimum like 18kw a day on really cloudy days and up to high 50s on a good summer day. No batteries but it's drastically reduced my power bill.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Straya is living in the year 3024 with regards to solar. We're all very jealous of your success in this particular endeavor.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Do they ever get rain down there though? Feels like there's a lot of sun compared to like Europe

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Yes, loads in Melbourne winter

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

Usually straight after the bushfires

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

They've got better conditions with regards to the amount of sunlight, yes, but I was mainly referring to the incredible price tag of the installed system.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

While I can't speak to your region and local subsidies, I've recently been looking into solar and this seems comparable to offers I saw, in terms of total price for the system and it's size. I'm in the EU though, so no clue how comparable these values should even be.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It seems crazy expensive compared to what it would cost in the Netherlands. No advertisement, but check prices on e.g. the site Solar Bouwmarkt. There's still loads of costs aside from the panels themselves, so please add everything up. Still, if you think that was a good price I wonder if you know the costs involved.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

I had assumed it's everything, including installation. The offer shown includes inverter and all the usual. if it's just panels, that would obviously not be an acceptable price.

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