I hate how the US has invaded so many countries it's now a measure of how fast things spread
this post was submitted on 13 Apr 2024
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[Dormant] Electric Vehicles
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I would be interested how much of the "there is just no demand for EVs in the US" narrative is either:
- manufactured consent, pumped out on all corporate owned media to foster demand for oil
- the fact that US companies refuse to make affordable EVs, and the demand is plateauing only for luxury cars
The problem with the cheap Chinese EV import is that once you're hooked on that, your domestic EV industry will not develop, which makes it reasonable to guard against. Then again, you actually have to whip your domestic production into shape. I think the US has the whole subsidy game upside down - governments should subsidize societally positive actions even if companies are currently not doing them, like cheap electric cars in this case; and not just make subsidies that target specific companies and sectors to throw government money at them and let their CEOs do whatever they like.
If legacy automakers don’t want to make affordable EVs, so be it. I would also prefer to help give an edge to a thriving local industry and develop more local jobs but they need to actually cooperate. In the face of serious competition, despite huge economic protectionist barriers, they don’t want to compete in this market.
“You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.” <==> you can create incentives to develop local industry and protectionism to help them while they’re weak but you can’t make them succeed
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You’re right about subsidies incentivizing all the wrong things. US fossil fuel subsidies are somewhere in the neighborhood of $1T, with global subsidies for the industry in the neighborhood of $7T. It’s preposterous.
EV sales in the US were 50% higher in 2023 than in 2022. So not only is there plenty of demand, but demand is rapidly growing.
However, car manufacturers anticipated even faster growth, hence they made more EVs than they could sell, hence all the complaints about unsold inventory and "lack of demand for EVs".
Dealerships are the bottleneck here. They've lobbied the states to make it illegal/very difficult for manufacturers to sell straight to consumer and have jacked up EV prices as a result. MSRP on most electrics are a joke right now.
Funny enough, perhaps the most innovative thing Tesla ever did was breaking this mold and look how successful they've become because of it.* Ford's been trying for years now to get their dealers under control to middling results, just to show how pervasive it is.
- please don't read into this as any kind of pro-Elon praise. There's plenty to criticize Tesla/Elon Musk for, but the only point I'm making here is that selling directly to consumers isn't one of them.
IMO drop in EV demand is because people discovering what an asshat Elon is. In LA previously I saw a large number of Teslas, now more and more other companies like BMW, Mercedes, Hundai and also ones that I previously never heard of like Lucid, Polestar.
I still see way more Teslas in Denver, but also finally some Kias, Rivians and others.
I'm not saying Teslas disappeared, there's still a lot of them (especially 3), but in LA people seem to change cars frequently and along new EVs with temporary license plates there are now many non-Teslas that I did not see before.
Idk what's up with the downvotes here. Just speaking anecdotally, Tesla was the face of EV up until like four years ago, and Elon was the face of Tesla. Him coming out against the demographic that was among the earliest supporters of EVs (read: Tesla (read: Elon Musk)) definitely did a blow to support for them from what I've seen. I once watched a Tesla driver get booed out of an Electric Car show in Madison, WI, because of how much the community hates Elon lol
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There's plenty of demand for EVs here, just very little demand for $40,999 starting MSRP, fuckhuge, unreliable, unrepairable, iPad-dash, "luxury" crossovers with trim packages nobody wants that every company in the US market wants to shove down our throats. Show me an EV equivalent of something like the Mirage made by a company whose track record doesn't look like a midtown Baltimore backstreet (looking at the Chevy Spark), isn't price gouged to hell by dealerships, and I'll take my ass down wherever I can pick one up
Case in point, I would have been drooling at an actual Mustang EV. The Mach-E is a joke.
Maccy could have stood on its own - it seems like a decent vehicle, but wtf were they thinking abusing the Mustang name like that. It is clearly not a vehicle someone looking for a Mustang would like, nor does it add value to the Mustang name. It was just a seriously boneheaded move - did they lay off marketing and go with some engineering comment?
An electric GTI or Civic Type R would be sick. Crazy performance, but still a lot smaller and more lightweight than other stuff on the market, so charging could be faster and the price could be less insane.
That’s what I get from the description of the Rivian 3x. However it’s several years away plus they didn’t announce a target price point
EV GTI is exactly what I'm waiting for. VW claims 2026 so first US availability is probably 2027. My current GTI is in good shape so shouldn't be a problem to hold out 3 more years.
Electric GTI-s exist, it's called a GTE.
I don't know how they perform, though.
Edit: I'm stupid, GTEs are PHEVs. Well, TIL.
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Theyre coming for the Corvette and Chally, too, friend. Personally, I said the Mirage because that's exactly what I want out of an EV. Sportiness and EV just doesn't mesh to me and I've got a whole backyard of cars I've spent years building/restoring/modding to fit all my performance needs. What I'd love to have is an EV that actually delivers on what they were sold to us as: an economic choice. I'll take my V8s out on the weekend, but give me a new shitbox that's dirt cheap off the lot and even cheaper to run around on my daily commute and I'll be happy.
The thing is, a Volkswagen EV holds the Pikes Peak record. EVs are sporty as hell.
Compact EVs do exist, but they are hella expensive for some reason. Volkswagen makes them at least.
They're fast but it literally just comes down to the fact that they're all autos. I don't think there's any consumer EV with a proper stick
I think they tried to do something like that in some Japanese brand. That said, they are not really autos, they are direct drive, there is no transmission to speak of. It's like expecting a stick shift in a propeller plane, no point to it.
Toyota's been toying with the idea of a simulated standard transmission. You're totally right about them not really being autos either. I understand that there's really no way for a EV to have a manual transmission, but that's pretty much where the "sport" comes from, "slow car fast" and all that. Otherwise it's pretty much just a numbers game, no real skill required.
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