Letting people live the life they chose for themselves: unacceptable!
Forcing them to be unhappy and never find peace with themselves: just as god intended.
this post was submitted on 08 Apr 2024
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Ah yes, recknognizing that human beings come in many different forms is the "threat to human dignity", and definitely not the practice of trying to aggressively (even violently) shoehorn others into neat, convenient categories. 🙄
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The Vatican has described the belief in gender fluidity as “a concession to the age-old temptation to make oneself God”
Better update the bible in English to refer to god as "they" instead of always using male pronouns, then.
Attack and dethrone god
Lucifer tried!
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Fuck the vatican
Boo!
Boo, again I say!
It makes life so much harder for Trans living in parts of the world where Catholicism is still relevant.
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The surrogacy debate is one of those things where I think leftists and feminists across the world don't realize how far apart they are. Over here it's a very mainstream left-wing, feminist position to agree with the Pope on that one. Hardcore feminists, and increasingly moderates as well will refer to surrogacy as "human trafficking" and have been lobbying to illegalize it outright for a while.
I'm not super aware of the mainstream stance among feminism in the US, but from the comments here I'm gonna say... not that?
I guess not. I'm also guessing it's a lot easier for same-gendered couples to adopt in your country. It's not easy at all in the U.S.
I don't know, I've never tried. The one person I know who did adopted abroad, so I'm gonna guess not super easy?
Extremely difficult. Courts have essentially ruled that adoption agencies can turn down whoever they want based on their religious views, and not just queer people, this was a case over a Jewish couple trying to adopt from a Christian agency because that was the only one available in their area. And, of course, that's true in a lot of places. All the adoption agencies are Christian and will only let other Christians adopt.
Which is pretty fucking ironic considering they kept saying adoption was an alternative to abortion.
I'm curious, where's "over here" for you? I'm not super involved in politics here in the US, but I don't think surrogacy is really talked about much here? There's the people who vehemently oppose it (from my experience that's mostly the religious right), but almost any interaction I've had discussing it just lists it as an option people can consider.
I should mention that I'm Bi and don't have a kid, so I mostly hear about it from the context of same sex couples.
Look, if I wanted to say that I'd have just come out and said it. You could probably figure it out by digging through my replies and mentions, but... that'd be kinda rude?
We can leave it at "not in the US", maybe?
In any case, it is interesting how that divide has not made it over. Along with the different positions on sex work it seems like one of the most notorious differences in position within feminism (TERFs exempted because I don't think they count at all in the first place).
I think we all have a tendency to try to paper over these regional differences to present a unified front, but these are significant differences in perspective.
And for the record, I know plenty of same sex couples here that will tell you outright that having babies is not a right and you don't get to pay for a woman's body under any circumstances. Like you, I feel like I don't have a horse in the race, so I abstain from opining in any direction on this one. You need at least one more uterus than I'm rocking to get a vote on this one.
But I can still notice the difference of opinion and how little it's mentioned.
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From the US: I'm over 30 and this is the first time I've heard surrogacy referred to as human trafficking. And now I need to sit and think.
It's always felt a little bit creepy to me, but I've also never wanted kids and the idea of pregnancy for any reason would be traumatic. So I'm starting out heavily biased. I think if you take the money out, it no longer counts....?
But the idea would be so out of left field that it would mostly be dismissed out of hand, probably even by most women.
Agreed. Being slightly less of an asshole than one”s predecessor is definitely not the same as being “cool”.
Ah yes, it is uniquely dignified to hate your body and feel like an alien inside it.
LOL, every single surrogate I've ever met personally, with the exception of one, has been a staunch Christian.
I hope you don't think your anecdotal experience indicates anything.
There are a ton of resources for LGBT people looking for surrogates and how to find them.
Edit: Sorry, I thought this was a reply to something else. Ignore.
Get Fucked Pedo Leader!!!
I say diddling kids is a threat to human dignity.
That's where you and the pope will just have to agree to disagree.
Lol
The Vatican said Pope Francis had approved the document, which also reaffirms its condemnation of surrogacy, saying the practice represents “a grave violation of the dignity of the woman and the child”.
“A child is always a gift and never the basis of a commercial contract,” the document says. “Every human life, beginning with that of the unborn child in its mother’s womb, cannot be suppressed, nor become an object of commodity.”
The ethical problems with surrogacy are real, but they're not about the child. They're about income inequality and putting adult women through a physically traumatic, dangerous, and possibly life-changing experience for money. If we were able to use artificial wombs for "surrogacy" (I know, it's technically not the same thing), I think people would see it as nothing but a new type of fertility medicine.
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And I think an organisation covering for pedophiles and murdering kids in their schools have no moral high ground and it is definitely unfit to lecture anyone on human dignity.
Eat a bag of dicks Francis
Exactly. There people are a threat, not role models.
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Vatican has described the belief in gender fluidity as “a concession to the age-old temptation to make oneself God”, as it released an updated declaration of what the Catholic church regards as threats to human dignity.
The new Dignitas infinita (Infinite Dignity) declaration released by the Vatican’s doctrinal office on Monday after five years in the making reiterates Pope Francis’s previous criticism of what he has called an “ugly ideology of our time”.
Reiterating opposition to gender reassignment surgery, it adds: “It follows that any sex-change intervention, as a rule, risks threatening the unique dignity the person has received from the moment of conception.”
The Holy See distinguished between these sorts of surgeries and procedures to resolve “genital abnormalities” that are present at birth or develop later.
The Vatican said Pope Francis had approved the document, which also reaffirms its condemnation of surrogacy, saying the practice represents “a grave violation of the dignity of the woman and the child”.
Fernández, a liberal theologian who was appointed to the DDF role – one of the Vatican’s most powerful positions – by Francis last year, said punishing homosexuality was “a big problem” and that it was “painful” to see some Catholics support anti-homosexuality laws.
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