this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025
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She finds the whole idea absurd. To Prof Marci Shore, the notion that the Guardian, or anyone else, should want to interview her about the future of the US is ridiculous. She’s an academic specialising in the history and culture of eastern Europe and describes herself as a “Slavicist”, yet here she is, suddenly besieged by international journalists keen to ask about the country in which she insists she has no expertise: her own. “It’s kind of baffling,” she says.

In fact, the explanation is simple enough. Last month, Shore, together with her husband and fellow scholar of European history, Timothy Snyder, and the academic Jason Stanley, made news around the world when they announced that they were moving from Yale University in the US to the University of Toronto in Canada. It was not the move itself so much as their motive that garnered attention. As the headline of a short video op-ed the trio made for the New York Times put it, “We Study Fascism, and We’re Leaving the US”.

Starkly, Shore invoked the ultimate warning from history. “The lesson of 1933 is: you get out sooner rather than later.” She seemed to be saying that what had happened then, in Germany, could happen now, in Donald Trump’s America – and that anyone tempted to accuse her of hyperbole or alarmism was making a mistake. “My colleagues and friends, they were walking around and saying, ‘We have checks and balances. So let’s inhale, checks and balances, exhale, checks and balances.’ I thought, my God, we’re like people on the Titanic saying, ‘Our ship can’t sink. We’ve got the best ship. We’ve got the strongest ship. We’ve got the biggest ship.’ And what you know as a historian is that there is no such thing as a ship that can’t sink.”

(page 3) 50 comments
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (3 children)

As others have already commented, not everyone can just leave. Also, if we could all leave, who would take so many USA immigrants?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

South America? Just do a full swap and leave them holding the bill.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Why would she flee to Canada? If she knows what happened in 1930s Germany then she knows what happened to their neighbours a few years later, right?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

Suppose she can keep running

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 weeks ago (29 children)

Must be nice to be financially stable enough to run away.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

All the ways to escape that didn't require lots of money are all long gone

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I don't know your story or your financial situation.

It is a sad reality that in the US there are literally millions who probably can't leave even if it was life or death. But i feel like your comment directs your anger and pain towards those who are in at the very least a similar boat to you. Considering that she is an academic, I doubt she is rich, probably middle class at best. The billionaires stole from you, she is probably a victim of this system just like you.

She is lucky to be able to leave, but realistically she is probably just putting a much bigger weight on this issue than most and I would guess that she sees this as a life or death situation. I think that in a life or death situation, most people can afford to leave to Canada, this isn't that crazy nor does it cost a fortune. It is true that not all people can, but I'm pretty sure that by far most can.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

An academic who's job is is to know these things is spending the money to do it. That's the take away here. They're the Canary in the Coal Mine.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I don't blame people for running, but personally I've always found that Fighting Fascism is a Fine Hill to Die On.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

To be honest, I'd be perfectly willing to die on much smaller, less impactful hills. Some days I feel like dying in a valley, far away from anything, but then I see some real bullshit going on and get mightily pissed off.

What I'm saying is, dying isn't the worst thing you can do in life.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

"I'm affluent with the privilege & means to escape when I know it's going to go bad &, trust me, it's going to get bad.

Anyways, good luck, suckers!"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago

She's using her position to educate, raise awareness, and validate the alarm several people are feeling. This is possibly the most impactful thing she can do at the moment. She is standing up and pointing out fascism. I guess she could stay after having done that, but then you get people going "if it's so bad then why don't you leave?!" And then she's at even more risk of being disappeared. She is uprooting her family and life and in the process displaying how sincerely she believes that we're headed down the wrong path. Is she doing it for her own benefit, yea, sure, but this article imho is more impactful than her going to a protest. I've sent it to some of my more normie friends already because we were just talking about this and they really don't realize how bad things are already. They think I'm fear mongering. This article might help people realize what the reality is and take direct action that they didn't think was necessary at this point. Is it cowardly to leave? Maybe. But she didn't have to speak out, she could have left quietly, but she chose to make a statement. That's more than a lot of people will end up doing, regardless of if they stay or not.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 weeks ago

This, exactly. And running to Canada. Like fleeing the coming Nazi Germany by emigrating to Poland. Congratulations, you accomplished almost nothing.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Problem is, Canada has strict immigration laws, so I assume she 1. used her prestigious degrees and CN accepted her immigration immediately for a teaching job or 2. she is there illegally for the next 5 years (I think that is how long it takes there.) Illegally means no health coverage, jobs that pay cash only, etc. It is easy to cross the borders, it is another thing entirely when you need to find work.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Did you actually read the requirements or just post the CN immigration site? The "Express Program" which is the only fast track, 3yrs instead of 5yrs of a path to citizenship, requires either a job offer to higher education requirements, such as a BA, to qualify, or as they put it gain more points (it is a point system.) A lot of people will not qualify for this. Again, legally immigrating is not easy.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

As an 'alum' of this intake process I feel pretty qualified to opine on it.

What's your opinion founded on?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

Actually reading it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

She did her part by educating us and it's obvious she'll be among the first to be targeted. It only makes sense that she should flee.

I, for one, am grateful that she spoke the truth in that NYT opinion piece.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

Right? I don’t get people here mocking her for leaving. The first people to be removed or “disappeared” in fascists states are the bogeymen “others” - the foreigners, the ones that are easy targets and can’t fight back. The next ones are the obvious liberal dissenters. First the regular people, the scientists and liberal teachers, the students, then the liberal politicians. The smart people are always targeted.

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