this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2024
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Privacy

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Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

I don't mind paying for email if it's actually private. One advantage I found to using Proton Mail instead of my self hosted email server (other than the obvious convenience, config, maintenance, blocked port 25, IP reputation so you don't end up in spam, etc) is that the more people start to migrate off of Google and onto Proton, the more emails between Proton users will be E2E encrypted by default, so it's one of those "the more users, the better" kinda things.

Same with Tuta. Even though emails between a Proton and Tuta user aren't E2E, it's still a net benefit for everyone if more people switch to these private solutions.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago (1 children)

And to be fair, they were upfront about it...

The problem now is that 1) Google products turned from innovative to barely functional (with every improvement coming in a soon to be killed new app) and 2) they went from your data to show you ads to profiling people's fart strength

Now that I think of it, thesgiy e free products also differ from inflation ... You get to pay with even more of your privacy for an increasingly shittier product

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

With the rate of turnover at tech companies, some of their more fundamental legacy offerings are just black boxes at this point.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

I believe 100% that to be the case

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (3 children)

The problem is that if you run your own email server at home, you get blocked as a spammer these days. Today, to send emails you MUST use one of the big providers, or your email won't get delivered half of the times. One has no alternative but to use these free services.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I run a couple small mailservers. It's still possible.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Not if you set it up properly.

You can have your email hosted by Gmail or Outlook and still get flagged as spam if you don't complete the exact same set up requirements. (SPF, DKIM, etc)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I have my own email server and they don't block me AFAIK. I need to test more anyways

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

in 2017, Google finally caved. That year, the company announced that regular Gmail users’ emails would no longer be scanned for ad personalization (paid enterprise Gmail accounts already had this treatment).

Wut

[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I don't think paying will solve anything. Some genius will one day just think "but what if we just charged more. But what if we made our service worse so they pay more to restore it. But what if we just merge with even shittier people so they can do all this shitty stuff."

It's never enough, it will never be enough. It's self hosted and open source or barbarism.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago

Self-hosting was always the intent. Open source ended up being a bonus. People 30 years ago wouldn't understand why something like facebook would even need to exist. The internet is designed so literally everyone can have their own website.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Remember when we would climb over 10 office desks to try to snatch an invite to this new "G mail" service with a whole Gig of space?

We were literally begging to have them steal all our personal correspondences, bank statements, etc

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Even then, Hotmail, Y! Mail and your shitty ISP's shitty POP mailbox were reading the contents of your emails and selling adverts based on the contents. At least with GMail they gave us the dignity of a nice UI and adequate storage.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

At that time I honestly doubt NetZero was scanning my emails to deliver targeted ads. Doing that required hiring teams of engineers to write the software to do the scanning, scoring, and then mapping advertisers to specific customer groups. Its non trivial.

Most ISPs didn't have the money or the foresight to do that.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I don't know who NetZero are/were, but a number of UK ISPs were selling email and browser keywords to advertisers in the early aughts, including big players like BT and FreeServe. Some even tried to launch a project that would use DPI to inspect all web and email traffic and dynamically inject ads into email and webpages.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago
[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago

Okay back in the Don't Be Evil days, the business model expressed that no human should ever see private data except its owner. Google's business clients could ask Google questions about data analyses involving cross sections of thousands of users, but couldn't ask about individuals. Also you could tell Google to send ads to car owners (though normal Google advertising channels) and they would, and report how many users saw your ads.

Then two things became a problem.

One was internal affairs. Not just Google techs stalking their exes but people stealing databases of names and selling them to information collection orgs. So if you were a debt collector, it was good to have a friend in Google.

Also the PATRIOT act, FBI, DHS, NSA and eventually all of US law enforcement. Judges let them look at the raw Google data, which Google actually resisted with a high-powered legal team, but eventually the judges let law enforcement have at, which is how we have reverse warrants fulfilled by Google today.

In the aughts, Google was supposed to figure out a technological solution, so that the police could tap at the computer or look at the (salted) data all they want and without end user keys which no-one could access, they'd be SOL.

But they did too little too late, and nowadays, enough info on one person could narrow then down to a single human being, which John Oliver demonstrated a couple of years ago by building info kits on everyone in the US Senate, including acts of fraud and illicit affairs.

It was a good idea, and still may be if it's started locked down like Crystal Palace, but Google can't do it anymore.

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