Or, you know, none of that bullshit? We could just let it slip back into the primordial muck with superstition and shitting into our bare hands... But, no. We like our invisible sky daddies and not being collectively intelligent. π«₯
this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2024
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Or, like, we could maybe recognize that humankind has always had diversity of beliefs, and just go ahead and respect that fact within reason.
That's the problem with anti-theists pretending their beliefs aren't a religion. By acting like it's something different, you think it gives you permission to call for taking away other's rights. I respect atheism, but people like you can keep your bigoted hypocritical fundamentalist Atheism to yourselves.
Too ignorant. There is no pretending. Not having a belief is not a belief.
Believers are the hypocritical ones. By definition. And you can be very lucky that religion is still supported by some states. Because it really shouldn't be. Nothing in religion reflects reality.
Might as well invent a tax for used-up mind-energy for people who think a lot. Who cares if mind-energy can be proven, you'll gladly pay it, right? Riiiight? Thoughts have to come from somewhere. The big energy-thought-pool. There should be six days of think-rest per year to protect the energy balance. No thinking allowed. How does that sound? Let me write that down, so people in 1000 years can use my book as proof.
Who are the hypocritical ones, sitting on their holidays and rituals, and forcing them on everyone? It's not the atheists.
You're sounding rather manic here. Relax, the evangelicals are not coming to get you.
I personally would prefer it if we could shake off the last vestiges of christocentrism in our culture - the predominance of their national holidays, their stranglehold on government and taking away women's and lgbtq rights, and even the documenting of history based on bc and ad.
But your assertion is illogical because religion is incidental to bigotry, sometimes used as a vehicle for it, but not inherent to it. For example I once worked as an intern for a summer camp owned and operated by a Lutheran church. It was run by a pastor and her wife, and much of their operations were specifically meant for sheltering and supporting lgbtq+ youth. They never once made any attempt to convert me, and only ever made me feel welcomed and accepted for who I was.
One of the core problems with most branches of Christianity, historically, and into today is the idea of religious exclusivism. They hold that the only valid belief is their belief, and everything else is false and must be done away with. This idea that only Christianity was valid is what allowed them to feel justified in the eradication of pagans in ancient Rome, forced conversions in Europe, and the genocides and cultural erasure of indigenous people on Turtle Island.
So for you and other antitheists to say that only atheism is correct and valid, is just another form of religious exclusivism. Clearly you are already calling for the cultural erasure of all these other competing beliefs, just as the Christians in antiquity did. And likewise, state-atheism already has a history of oppression under Mao and Lenin. Are you a tankie too?
As a sidenote, it would be more accurate to say agnosticism, or even agnostic-atheism are nonbeliefs or nonreligions. But the more proselytizing and dogmatic Atheism gets, the more religiony it gets. So yes you are religious, and yes you are hypocritically guilty of the same bigoted religious exclusivism that your oh-so-hated Christian brothers are. You want to be better than them? Then don't be like them. Support a religiously plural world, a world where we can explore belief freely and still respect each other despite, or even because of, differences of worship.
You should write a book. Some people might believe it. But in my opinion, it is complete bullshit.
I believe in no God. There was never a god, and there will never be a god. A creature with powers? Maybe. I watched Star Trek. But a god? Creator of everything? Never. That is what atheism means.
Yet I have to live with theists, and they yield a lot of power. Not god-given, but self-imposed. I'm not angry. But you talk about LGBTQ rights? Where is my right to ignore theist holidays? There are laws against that. IMO, you are the bigot. Talking about rights.
And that is not a religion. And I'm not acting religious. I don't see why you interpret that as being angry, but you are already trying to convert me to something of your liking, something that is in its core dividing and prone to create inequality.
So no, I will not yield and simply say, oh, what gives. Religions are destroying freedom. Often on a state level. Much worse than the LGTBQ community has to face. Religion basically created the hate against LGTBQ. So don't tell me to oblige.
There is no god, so everyone acting in god's name is misguided. They sometimes do good. Fantastic. And trying to defend freedom is not a religion either. Every animal does it. Humans just argue about it more.
Nothing you say can convince me of a god. Not even a God showing up could. He'd be "god-like" at best. I do not believe in any god.
I'm not trying to convert you, atheism is fine and has a lot going for it. So give the persecution complex a rest. Having to share a world where other people are granted their own rights, does not necessarily infringe on your rights. You think your freedom is infringed because people get days off on theist holidays? That's like when straight people complain about gay marriage. Don't like gay marriage? Nobody is forcing straight people to be gay. Don't like theist holidays? Then don't celebrate them.
And you say yourself that if God themself came down, you would still not belief in God? That's like when a Christian says that no amount of evidence contradicting the Bible can shake their faith in the Bible. The whole idea with atheism is to be skeptical and evidence-based. And yet here you are with a faith so strong it cannot be shaken by anything.
Antitheists are as hypocritical and cognitively dissonant as carnists. Believe whatever you want, but here's a reality check: there are as many religions as there are people. The world has always had a diversity of belief, and always will. You will always have to share this planet with theists. Any program that seeks the eradication of all but one religion will always be a hugely destructive and traumatic failure, because humans are always looking to disagree with each other and explore new possibilities. And yes, at a certain point atheism becomes a religion, particularly when it becomes dogmatic and institutionalized. You're not special. You in particular have demonstrated a religiosity that is only comparable to the staunchest Christians.
You really do not get the point. Atheism does only mean to not believe in a single, almighty God.
I have no problem accepting powerful aliens, extradimensional beings, or unimaginable creatures. As long as they can be proven not to be hallucinations.
Whatever they are, they are not God, because God is some contradictory being thought up by people, conjured out of nothing, without relatives or ancestors. Religions based on such concepts are nonsensical in the least.
The stories are inconsistent; the whole concept is ridiculous. No matter what comes down, I will not believe. Atheism is not a religion.
I could accept religions being wrong, and that people mistakenly declared some alien to be God, and invented ridiculous stories around the concept.
Okay dude. Β―_(γ)_/Β―
Say this when it's a country's primary religion on the line, not when some minorities want equal rights for their religions.
No. Say it always for all religion. Fuck the entire system of mind control. Don't cherry pick your oppressors, citizen.
Unless the country's primary religion is on the line, you are not going against all religion - you are going against the specific religion in question (or religions). Systems resit change, so if you advocate for "let's not give this minority's religion equal rights, and instead take away the rights of the primary religion" only the first part will get implemented.
Analogy: Whenever there is a talk about legalizing same sex marriage, someone will always argue that the state should not get involved in any kind of marriage. Does this position have merit on on its own? Yes. But when presented in the contest of same sex marriage legalization, is it anything but pure support of continuing the oppression of same sex couples?
I don't care what religion it is, I just want more holidays
I want a whole fucking week off like India, how come they get to do that and we can't?
Christmas is a week off. Easter is a week off.
Where is this? You'd be lucky to not get mandatory overtime here...
It's called being part of the bourgeoisie or their sycophantic enforcers.
Maybe for some lucky folks. I get Christmas Day. If the boss is feeling generous hey may let us leave early on Christmas Eve. Weβre off for Easter, but since weβre closed on Sunday anyway itβs not actually a holiday.
hear me out, i may be less for adding more religious holidays.
this is based on trying to use b and h as a professional service. they close for EVERY Jewish holiday. there's so many of them. so many more then Christian holidays that others close for. AND they still close for those Christian holidays.
it makes them unpredictable and hard to use. if they also started taking off Muslim holidays they'd be closed every 2 days... that's just too much. i don't think we as a society can afford to take that many holidays.
it's very hard to explain to you boss why we have to delay because the partner we're contracted with is closed until Monday because of a holiday that your boss has never heard of.
This would be my argument for allowing people of various religions to take their religious holidays, but not require everyone to take them (if they don't want to).
So (and these will all be hypothetical because my knowledge of holidays across various religions is pretty poor -- sorry) :-
Imagine there are four main religions in the UK -- Potterism, Everdinery, Swannism and Sherlockian.
Potterism celebrates the 31st of July, 31st of October, the 2nd of May, the 1st of September and the 19th of September as its holy days.
Everdinery celebrates the 10th of March, the 20th of May, the 31st of August, the 9th of January and the 5th of July.
Swannism celebrates the 3rd to the 5th of May, the 10th of August, the 12th of September and the 12th of December.
And Sherlockian celebrates the 1st of February, the 9th of March, the 12th of June, the 24th of September and the 10th of October.
Along with all these, all four religions celebrate the 31st of December, the 1st of January and the 23rd of August. Just because.
(Really making this up as I ago along).
The celebrants of each religion can take their days off as a holiday (without using up their paid holiday allowance), but businesses do not have to close. Bank holidays become a thing of the past.
Schools ignore them, and school holidays are arranged around more sensible times (summer holidays, spring holidays, winter holidays).
Religion is taken out of public life more or less altogether.
Now I accept that in "real life" this will be more complicated, but businesses can adapt for Jewish, Muslim, Christian and other workers and would not need to shut down on such a wide scope
The only exception might still be Christmas, because that has become more of a secular thing than a religious one.
I don't even want more holidays. I just want them spaced out better :)
(Every public holiday bar 1 occurs within 22 weeks and 1 day (December 25th to the 27th of May in this case).
They all occur within the last week of December, the first week of January and (generally) the first/second week of April.
How about instead of clumping them altogether, we get one every two months or so. That would be far better :)
This is how it is where I live, it's great. There's a holiday every month except for April and June, and in September there's two.
How about holidays because humans are living, breathing, thinking, emoting beings that need decent food, shelter, rest and recreation? The closing of businesses on at least one weekend day need not be religious. If we run oit for a day or two, we get some from a neighbor or are just out for a day or two?
My da hosts a Bible study group in their home, and recently I glanced at a booked they were going through called "The War on Christianity" or some shit like that. I just gave a short laugh and said "Oooooh, you poor oppressed Christians!" before my mother gave me "the look" that said "I know how you feel, but please don't start shit right now."
These people have no idea what oppression is. They think that people having negative opinions of Christianity is "oppression". They think that folks fighting for abortion rights is "oppression" against Christians. They think that folks telling them that they gave no intention to get involved in their religion is "oppression".
They are still allowed to gather freely, to hold positions of power, own homes and businesses, proselytize, protest, etc.
They're just mad that they're finally being called out for their harmful, hateful, and bigoted viewpoints. It's "oppression" because they can't force everyone else to follow their rules.
I was curious, so i googled. Was it The Global War on Christianity?
Christianity is illegal in parts of the world. I can understand why Christians in America would read a book about it
And in many parts of the world they are doing irreparable harm.
Plus, they only buy that book to feel sorry about themselves. US Christians have a persecution fetish.
all of these can be simultaneously true
The Muslim Christian comparison doesn't really hold up, holy days they actually get off happen 2-3 times a year but Muslims have to pray five times a day every day. I would hope if a Christian or any other religion (or heck non religious students who need a mindfulness break) would be respected for a prayer break. Otherwise it would be unfair.
That said more holidays sounds great so by all means give us the Muslim ones off of school too π
You are missing the point.
Easter this year is the 31st of March.
The ENTIRE COUNTRY (the UK this is) will be forced to SHUT DOWN for the weekend, whether they are Christian or not. Banks. Businesses. Everything will close for the entire weekend.
But wait -- it gets worse.
The school year is split into three terms -- Winter, Spring and Summer. And because Easter is so early (because a bunny looked at a gopher's shadow or something) the Spring term starts in January (with the New Year) and ends on the 24th of March (I think). That's barely enough time to get kids settled in their classes. Then the summer term is like A BILLION WEEKS LONG because Easter is so early.
Then
when Easter is a lot later -- you get the two bank holidays in May (one of which is religious, one of which isn't) that fuck up the summer term and make it almost not worth going back for the one week before you are off again.
This is entirely because of Christian holy days
And on top of all this there is the fact we still keep "Sunday special" -- a day that only one religion gives a crap about. Thankfully we are getting over that and starting to treat Sunday like every other day of the week. But if you ask most people they think it should still be "a rest day" because it is Sunday.
This entire country bends over backwards to accommodate Christianity in everything it does, and yet the Little Englanders always feel Christians are hard-done by.
Well like I said I have no issues with the holidays being changed! Either adding more or changing the dates so everyone can celebrate their own religious or non religious traditions on the same days. Agree with you about Sundays too, nobody should be forced to work that day but otherwise I don't think it should be treated differently. I don't think that changes the leaving class to pray points though.
You entirely disagree with me about Sundays, as it turns out, but I can see how you could have misunderstood that :)
Christians by the bible and old customs are also supposed to pray in the morning noon and evening. Thats why the churches ring the bell at those times.
So it is only by not taking their religion all too serious anymore that christians dont ask for their noon prayer.
There seems to be a misunderstanding here. I assume you're referring to Psalm 55. Psalm 55:16-19 (NLT):
But I will call on God,
and the Lord will rescue me.
Morning, noon, and night
I cry out in my distress,
and the Lord hears my voice.
He ransoms me and keeps me safe
from the battle waged against me,
though many still oppose me.
God, who has ruled forever,
will hear me and humble them.
That's not a mandate, it's a description of how often David prayed. But there is a mandate in 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18:
Always be joyful. Never stop praying. Be thankful in all circumstances, for this is Godβs will for you who belong to Christ Jesus.
God is always listening, and He doesn't like it when prayers (as in people who pray) babble just to check boxes. The same almost certainly applies to scheduled prayers. If there's a legitimate purpose, there's nothing wrong with that, but praying just because it's praying time doesn't make sense. Especially since we're supposed to keep the comms open all the time anyways.
Thanks, i thought it was explicitly stated.
Not sure how you are interpreting the Thessalonians verse, which EXPLICITLY says βnever stop prayingβ as god doesnβt like it when people pray for no reason. Seems to me that, at least for this specific verse, this is exactly what god wants.
I'm back with more research. In the original Greek, the word used there was "adialeiptΕs," which is typically translated as "without ceasing." Looking up its definition, I got "without intermission, incessantly, without ceasing." The word was also used as part of the following verses (KJV because it's a more direct translation):
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers (Romans 1:9)
We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father (1 Thessalonians 1:2)
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. (1 Thessalonians 2:13)
And in adjective form:
that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. (Romans 9:2)
I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day (2 Timothy 1:3)
The most common interpretation among theologians seems to be the "keep the comms open" kind of thing, but it looks like another valid interpretation, especially given that last verse, is more like "don't take any days off from prayer." Nor periods of the day. In other words, be praying a lot, and never pause that practice.
I didn't mean that was how I was interpreting Thessalonians. That bit instead stems from Jesus talking about how to pray. He said something along the lines of "don't babble like pagans, who think they'll be heard because of their many words."
"Never stop praying," depending on how you read it, either means "be praying at literally every moment," "never abandon the practice of prayer," or some more vague "be in the attitude of prayer all the time." I always thought it was the latter, as some translations say "pray without ceasing." The first just doesn't make sense. I'll have to do some more research later. But that's why I said "we're supposed to keep the comms open all the time anyways."
Christmas is a European pagan tradition, really we base our holidays around seasons of which due to the importance of them also feature many religious events.
I hate that argument because the reason why it's still celebrated isn't the pagan origin but its appropriation by the Christian Church.
On the other hand its turned into a decedant festival of feasting and alcohol so the pagans kind of won on that one. Which is also the reason for celebrating it for all the non-christians that do.
By that logic, if you get enough people to party on a specific day, the government will make it a holiday, right?
The stoners have been trying this with 4/20 for many moons.