this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2024
24 points (96.2% liked)

Curated Tumblr

5017 readers
3 users here now

For preserving the least toxic and most culturally relevant Tumblr heritage posts.

The best transcribed post each week will be pinned and receive a random bitmap of a trophy superimposed with the author's username and a personalized message. Here are some OCR tools to assist you in your endeavors:

Don't be mean. I promise to do my best to judge that fairly.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

timemachineyeah

drives me up a wall living in a very very red district, like "no democrat is ever going to win any local election, let alone a real leftist" district, like "our school board members ran on who was the most anti-mask" red, like "I pass white supremacist signs on the way to buy weed" red

and being in the local leftist community and the guy who runs the anarchist book club and the lady who helps keep the warming shelters open and the people who marched on city hall when a local business was getting death threats for having a drag show are all members of a discord and we get on this discord and have frank discussions about how best to vote

the people who do the protests and the mutual aid and all the real work

going "okay, they're both fascists, but this one lacks ambition and seems happy to just glide in the position" or "they both suck, but this one can be reasoned with if you frame it patriotically enough" like we don't even have a democrat to vote for. we know what a vote is. we know what we hope accomplish with it. we know what it can do, and we know what it can't.

and going from those discussions to here where people think that your vote is some kind of fucking??? enabling maneuver??? as if someone isn't going to end up in that seat regardless of what you do???

we didn't build this system, we just live in it. we're just trying to survive. a vote isn't a statement of your values, it's not an endorsement, it's not a marriage contract, it's a strategic play you make to keep alive.

the biggest mistake I see leftists making is overestimating their own popularity. "well but everyone would be leftist if they just-" no, stop, 1) you can't possibly know that 2) everyone will not just

(page 3) 41 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

This is one of those things where I’m in agreement but I’m also fucking tired of hearing the “lesser of two evils” bullshit (in general). The country is going to continue to drag right because that’s what benefits the ruling class. That’s the reality. Both parties and both candidates are playing their roles in this continued push. Thinking we actually have a say in the end is the first mistake, like voting in federal elections in the US is some massive action. It’s the whole ratchet effect in politics. You can either vote for the far right candidate, or you can vote for the center right one. That’s it. Those are the choices. We can sit here and make these absolutely garbage people the focus of our entire discussion and move the needle nowhere, despite knowing exactly how this is going to play out, or we can make it moot and focus on organizing while not wasting time talking about filling a circle in on a piece of paper while patting ourselves on the back. In the scheme of things the working class can do, that is the bare minimum.

I don’t give a shit about any of these candidates. All I know is that one is committing genocide and the other is a boomer criminal that employs a bunch of family members and other sycophants, who would also commit the same genocide if given the chance. Because thats what the ruling class beast demands and nothing stops it. People make voting into a bigger thing than they do organizing and educating. Bide your time. Vote if you want or don’t. Scolding people is a waste of time and it’s divisive. It continues the divide that the ruling class wants because they know it’s one of the key factors that prevent the working class from uniting as one. We have the numbers. The fucking Ants movie tried to tell us.

The reality is that if we want real, actual change, it’s going to require us to get out of that comfort zone where we fill in a little circle with a pen and then act like we moved mountains. That right there is privileged lib shit. Your vote isn’t going to mean fuck all when we’ve witnessed the candidates change for years, while war and genocide continued under all of them; while the police state thrived under all of them; while trans and women’s reproductive rights were taken away or hindered under all of them.

These are the times when I wish Fred Hampton was still alive.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

i agree. thank you for this analysis.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Here in Huntsville, AL, a Democrat recently won a representative position by a wide margin.

It's possible to turn a red city blue or keep a blue city in a red state. It just takes all people to show up to vote.

And here's the rub: Democrats far out number Republicans, so the more people that vote, the higher the percentage that Democrats can win by.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Glad the city known for its phycists finally got a blue vote in!

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

do you guys seriously think we don't vote? dude im forced to in my country.

you are not even listening, go organize and stop wasting brainpower on that shit for fucks sake.

your country is already fascist and already not a democracy. scribbling on ballots aint changing this.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

We know it’s bad. The point is that we unfortunately have to choose the lesser of the two evils, like it or not.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

as if someone isn't going to end up in that seat regardless of what you do???

Lol. Lmao even.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Left isn't an ism. Left isn't an ideology. Americans are fucking stupid. Read a book.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (9 children)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

This is why voting isn’t an option. What’s needed is violence and force, these people can’t be reasoned with or expected to take the rational option.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

are we allergic to doing both or something

the post clearly outlines voting as the last minute harm reduction option after all other avenues have been exhausted. do violent praxis and organizing, yea, but why tf would you throw away your option to vote when things haven’t changed yet and you have the opportunity to do 0.01% good for your neighbor?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

my opponents doing political violence

Cringe and bad.

Me doing political violence

Based ang good.

Absolutely not unhinged god complex thinking, I'm sure you're not equally as authoritarian as the people you despise.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Nazis killing people, bad.

Stopping Nazis killing people, bad.

We get it you tolerate intolerance.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I tolerate intolerance, I don't tolerate violence, it's very simple.

The same tolerance I afford you, openly advocating violence in an open forum, i afford nazis.

You should be happy that this tolerance is in place, since you benefit from it.

The paradox of intolerance you are so daftly hinting at explicitly draws the line at circumventing debate and resorting to violence and intimidation.

That is the intolerance that shall not be tolerated, but since you never actually read the text and are ""educated"" through memes you wouldn't know that, because of that idiotic fucking comic you knuckledraggers love reposting to bolster your off-brand "can't be a fascist if I'm antifa" bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes I know you tolerate intolerance, that is entirely the issue.

You will sit back and do nothing to fight against those who wish to end tolerance. You’re the equivalent of a pacifist staring at the gates of Auschwitz, you disgust me.

I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.

Nowhere does the paradox of intolerance call out not using force if necessary to preserve tolerance.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Calm down Dollar store Robespierre

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

This kind of take isn't "necessarily wrong", i.e. we have never seen fascism beaten by peaceful means and all, but talking about it openly on someone's platform is a bad move for several reasons. Put up and shut up, is my advice. Get with your local antifa group, or start one with guidance from one you trust. Keep your mouth shut, protect yourself and others for real.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Talking about it is the first step of getting people involved in it.

This isn’t fight club.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The diffrence is commenting violence rhetoric isn't organising. I want to hear people saying "this is where you can reach me, this is what I'm about, let's talk about what to do"

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I’m not going to dox myself online.

Once people are openly talking about resistance, they can start looking into getting involved in the movement, and finding local groups to connect with.

Step 1 get radical.
Step 2 organise.
Step 3 ???.
Step 4 profit.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

I did say protect yourself. Why are you acting like I'm telling you to make a mistake? I'm telling you to do what you think you got to do, but do it without getting caught or fucking over a small time platform. Violent rhetoric is a liability. You're already radical, so organise. Stand on business.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

You’ve convinced me, let’s go talk with the Nazis who are out to literally kill people for the simple act of existence.

If we just tolerate intolerance a little bit more surely that will fix the decades of decline!

The sooner you people realise this is a war for survival the sooner something can be done to protect the victims.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What are you doing to fight fascism?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

They're encouraging people not to vote, apparently. Real pro democracy move, that.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Feels like there's some sort of a spiritual element at play too. One option might be better irl, but it isn't worth it if participating at all will get your soul damned (in a religious, social or self respect sense)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That’s part of my problem. I’m a moral absolutist about a lot of things, which is a luxury. I don’t currently have that luxury, but that knowledge doesn’t change my morals.

The other part is the game theory aspect, in that the further right a candidate you accept, the further right the next democrat will be. The OP in this is trying to survive, not to change the system.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The OP in this is trying to survive, not to change the system.

says who? genuinely, what leads you to believe that? what part of reducing harm in the immediate future also precludes one from working for systemic change?

i commented this elsewhere but it bears repeating: why are we alergic to doing both?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I believe they meant to phrase it as:

The OP in this is saying to vote strategically is to survive, which you have to do to change the system.

At least that's what I got from the context.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

in that the further right a candidate you accept, the further right the next democrat will be

This too. Seen people that think there's literally no difference between conservatives and liberals so it'll be the same either way. I can't fathom how you can be so devoid of nuance so it feels like what they really want deep down is to accelerate.

Also I like that oop is specifically talking about nuance between two repubs. People seem to equate 'better' with 'good' so they'll come up with reasoning like 'liberals are not better they will just let conservatives do whatever they want'. That's still better than more conservatives that help conservatives do what they want. And between conservatives there can still be a distinction.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

it feels like what they really want deep down is to accelerate.

Predictable byproduct of the borderline adventist "rapture" that is "the revolution".

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›