this post was submitted on 23 Mar 2024
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Unpopular Opinion

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First of all, yeah, come at me. "Seinfeld" is only kinda-sorta funny, at best. Seinfeld himself is really not funny at all. His act is perpetually stuck between the oldschool, early 1950s-style, cigar-waving "hyuk-hyuk, get a load of all my jokes about women drivers" comedians and the post-Lenny Bruce era, where everything just boils down to telling boring "slice of life" stories with mildly clever exaggerations.

Seinfeld manages to pick and choose all the worst elements of both those eras and smush them together into a tremendously boring, un-funny standup act.

Annnnd that's what gets translated to the show. Boring, egotistical, overly-New-York-focused, pretentious nonsense.

Like I said, come at me about that. I know people disagree. I truly do not care what you want to say to me, about it. You're simply wrong. If you like his comedy or his show, you just have bad taste. I can't fix that. I can't change your mind. You can't change mine, either. But I'm objectively correct that he and his comedy material both suck.

But the whole "show about nothing" thing is what really boils my ass. You can argue that the show wasn't "about nothing," in the first place. And that's, like, whatever. There are valid arguments, there. In fact, I'd like to accept those arguments, then proceed under the assumption that the "show about nothing" concept really is a "show about nothing, and therefore about everything."

This is the important point: the thing I disagree with is this wretched and insulting notion that "Seinfeld" was somehow a PIONEERING television show, in this context of being about nothing and/or everything.

That's my problem. The claim that "Seinfeld" did any of that shit first. The implication is that all prior television, especially all prior comedies, were somehow locked into a "this is a show about a particular topic" mentality. And, like, "nobody had the GENIUS and the GUTS to make a freewheeling show about just, like, whatever topics came to the minds of the genius writers, and their groundbreaking stream-of-consciousness comedy process."

That's fucking horseshit. Horseshit of the highest fucking caliber.

I suppose these turd-brained fucksticks believe that "I Love Lucy" was about a Cuban guy who had a job as a bandleader and his wife, who sometimes tried to get into showbusiness. And "The Honeymooners" would be about a guy who has a job as a bus driver. And "Taxi" was a show about cab drivers, driving their cabs.

Of course, that's not what those shows were ACTUALLY ABOUT. They were basically shows about nothing, just as much as "Seinfeld" was. They were often about relatable problems in domestic life, they were sometimes about people trying zany get-rich-quick schemes, they were sometimes about the fears and perils and hopes that surround pregnancy and childbirth, they were often about the uncertainty and passion and sacrifice that people put themselves through, for their budding careers, or their workaday jobs. And they were about a million other things that all fit the "show about nothing" mold BETTER than "Seinfeld" ever did.

I say they did it better, because they weren't exclusively about sad, angry, borderline-psychopathic reprobates, who seem to have no goals or aspirations, beyond smirking and talking shit about people behind their backs, swilling coffee, and occasionally trying to get laid. They were shitty people, with shitty attitudes. I know that's part of the joke...but it wears thin very quickly, and my point is that other shows did a similar "it's a show about nothing...but really everything" theme, but their casts of characters WEREN'T entirely populated by malignant, fundamentally worthless narcissists.

Basically, I implore people to stop worshipping that fucking show, as if it was some kind of groundbreaking, high art. There were way better classic comedy shows than that piece of shit, from its own era and the TV eras before it.

Oh, and before you point out that I accused Seinfeld of being overly New York focused, but also used three other shows set in New York as counterexamples, I realized that just now.

And I don't give a shit. I can keep going. "Green Acres" wasn't really about farming. "The Bob Newhart Show" wasn't really about psychiatry, "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" wasn't really about TV production, and "WKRP in Cincinnati" wasn't really about radio production.

The shows about nothing and everything are THE MAJORITY of all the shows. Certainly, all the good ones. It's harder for me to think of reversed examples, where the show is just what it was supposed to be "about."

Like, yeah, "Flipper" really was about a fucking dolphin, and "The Flying Nun" really was about a flying fucking nun. And those shows fucking sucked.

I think I can consider my point thoroughly made.

Now, all you assholes can start typing abuse at me, for daring to dislike your idol. I won't be reading that shit. Not sorry.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

A truly unpopular opinion. I categorically disagree, but I also love to see it. Excellent.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I've seen a handful of Seinfeld episodes. I thought they were okay, but there was one character that really annoyed me, with his whiny, nasally voice and his absolutely awful attempt at delivering jokes. Comedy just died every time this guy opened his mouth; he was so cringey. I thought, if they got rid of that one character, the show would drastically improve. I actually stopped watching because I hated seeing him on screen in every episode.

I found out later, that character was Jerry Seinfeld himself.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 7 months ago

"What's the deaaaal with overrated hacks? Oh, wait." - Jerry Seinfeld, probably but not really

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Yeah, I'm not reading that wall of text but I agree. It's an unpopular opinion but I've never laughed once at anything on Seinfeld. I've seen episodes here and there because I definitely tried watching it. Just.... meh.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The "show about nothing" was a fictional, in-universe sitcom called "Jerry". The real show "Seinfeld" was about where a comedian got his material.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

What in the actual fuck it's "Seinfeld"?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, it's not "Berenstain."

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Nevermind it's a TV show, I feel the same as you but with "The Big Bang Theory". And with comedy shit in general and TV. These should be called "funny shit to forget your shitty life" shows.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Totally agreed. And yeah, I hate "The Big Bang Theory" so much that it actually made my skin itch, like I was about to break out in hives, when I got trapped somewhere where it was on, and there was no polite way for me to shut it off or leave the room.

One of the creepiest things on the internet is that series of clips, where someone removed the laugh track from parts of the show. It's FUCKING EERIE, DUDE. Without that shit in there, pointing out where the "jokes" are supposed to be, it's just full-on surrealist shit.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 7 months ago

Sad people are the ones who find these shitty ass shows funny tbh.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago

I hated Seinfeld and hated it more than I might have otherwise because it felt like everyone else loved it SO MUCH and wouldn't shut up about it. But damn dude. This is a lot of feelings about a show that sucked decades ago.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago

I think you have it spot on, mate.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago

I still watch Seinfeld every day. Hard disagree

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

The genius of Seinfeld was how they took all the different plot lines and tied them together at the end. Complete with absurdity.

But yes it was 4 antisocial and/or dysfunctional people.

Your thoughts on Frasier?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago

Oh shit, my dude. My thoughts on "Frasier" are MIND BOGGLINGLY FUCKING COMPLICATED, TO THE POINT THAT I AM NOT EVEN SURE WHAT I ACTUALLY FEEL, OR IF I AGREE WITH MYSELF. And it's all modulated by shifting social attitudes since the original airing, as well as issues of separating the known views and personalities of the actors from the art itself. I mean, do you have fifteen or twenty minutes to read this? Because that's what we're talking about.

Seriously, there is so much contradiction and complexity with "Frasier." On the one hand, it superficially follows the aforementioned "show about an actual premise, but it really is about anything and everything" model, to good effect.

It's a show about a known character, with an interesting profession, made even more interesting by combining it with him being a minor media celebrity, inside the universe? That's gold, from the very start. That can go anywhere. The writers never had to worry about having wells to draw potential plot points from.

Episodes that focus on stuff that happens on the air, on his show-within-a-show? They did those. They happened. Episodes that refer back to the aspects of practicing as a therapist? Niles did that. Those episodes were there. Ran out of ideas with that? Psych stuff getting boring? Episodes about their dad's former police career! They happened, too! And then you throw in all the stuff about Frasier and Niles being snobs and constantly having to prove to themselves that they were really and truly "cultured and sophisticated." If you run out of all that, you can have people stop in from Frasier's former "Cheers" life. And THEN you throw in all the stuff with Niles and his obsession with Daphne.

Annnnd that's where some of the cringe starts. And the "ick," as the young people say.

That creepy shit, with Niles. It got old, as a comedic premise, first of all. And it was really pretty regressive and fucked up, on multiple levels. It's not like the show really ever glorified Niles for objectifying Daphne. And it's not like I'm about to get on a moralizing soapbox and cry foul, on the grounds that the show shouldn't have presented him as a sympathetic character, despite being a married man with an obsessive crush on another woman, not his wife.

But the LEVEL of the objectification and stalker-style obsession is just gross, and I never liked it. And it certainly would be rightly controversial, today. And the fact that Niles eventually does "get" Daphne, as a reward for his patience? That really isn't okay. It's a repugnant and arguably outright dangerous message.

Whether they intended to or not, you can argue that this is the message they finally sent: "hey, all you lovelorn guys. Keep on smelling that girl's hair, when she's not looking. That's okay, as long as you're a nice guy. Be a good friend to her. Win her over, gradually, under false pretenses. Eventually, if you just keep on persisting in your dreams, the universe will reward you. After all that frustration and fantasizing, you deserve her."

That's, like, turbo-fucked. Nauseating. Again: I don't think that was anyone's explicit, specific intention. But it is there, when you look at the whole thing, from start to finish. Honestly, I believe it's just laziness that brought it about. I listed all those other wells that the writers could draw from. They didn't have any lack of potential material. And yet, they kept going back, more and more often, to this meme about Niles and Daphne and the whole love/obsession/friendzone thing. Ugh. It really did ruin the show for me, by the end.

Also, there's the fact that Kelsey Grammer is a real jackass, on a personal and political level. Watching a known conservative doing his best impression of a "hoity toity, talk-about-your-feelings, readin' book-smartsy books all the time Seattle liberal" is a little unpleasant, when you think about it.

And oh shit, there's the new show. I haven't watched it, but I am so sad that my man Nicholas Lyndhurst got sucked into that abominable shit-festival. God, I just hope they paid him really well.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not going to get into the whole rant, you think what you want, this is the place for that. But it wasn't pitched as "a show about nothing", that was an arc in the show but it's not at all what the actual theme of the show is

In a Reddit AMA, Seinfeld revealed how he and David really pitched the sitcom to NBC. The actor noted, "The pitch for the show, the real pitch, when Larry and I went to NBC in 1988, was we want to show how a comedian gets his material. The show about nothing was just a joke in an episode many years later." That's exactly what the show is, and for the first seven seasons, every episode sees Jerry performing stand-up comedy, making jokes based on exactly what that particular episode is about

https://screenrant.com/seinfeld-show-about-nothing-jerry-larry-david-pitch/

So don't worry so much about the show being about nothing. It's a sit-com.

[–] [email protected] 71 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Just as a point of clarification, a critic of the show called it a “show about nothing”. Jerry took that and used it as the plot of the show within a show that he and George wrote the pilot to, Jerry! Then people started referring to Seinfeld that way, but it never was about nothing, in fact it usually had 2-3 storylines per episode that they found a way to converge at the end.

I get that you don’t like the show, but at least get your facts straight.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Congratulations on the unpopular opinion. What mostly sets Seinfeld apart from other sitcoms that came before and what earned it “show about nothing” is that it didn’t have any “teachable moments”. The characters are shitty people doing shitty things who never grow, they never change or learn a moral lesson, they just stay as crappy people throughout the show’s run.

Of course in today’s environment with IASIP it’s just commonplace (IASIP is a spiritual descendent of Seinfeld), but when Seinfeld came out, no matter what kind of zany/grumpy/snide/mean characters were on a show, everyone came together at the end and learned a lesson about X. Other shows that were out the same year as Seinfeld were Family Matters, Saved by the Bell, and Coach, that’s the environment it existed in. Today it's expected more than anything, but at the time we were coming out of 80s tv and it’s shitty moralizing attitude about everything. If somebody did something wrong, they were going see the error of their ways and try to be a better person, by golly (awwwww sound effect).

Granted, Married with Children came out in 1987 and was doing something similar, but it was a bit raunchier/low-brow and the storylines weren't as "clever" or off-the-wall, so probably didn't have the same sort of appeal. MwC was more in the vein of All in the Family, if anything.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

First of all, you've made a whole two paragraphs of really excellent points. I respect your point of view, for the most part. However, I draw your attention to this opinion:

80s tv and it’s shitty moralizing attitude about everything

Might I assume that you fall somewhere squarely in the Gen-X age bracket? To the perpetually cynical minds of Gen-X-ers, happy endings and morality tales are like salt to a slug. They burn you. I get that.

I was born in 1980, so I fall into either the youngest cohort of the X-ers or the eldest cohort of the Millenials. Therefore, I saw all those shows, but I had a different perspective.

My teenage cynicism had not fully kicked in, when all those classic family sitcoms were on the air. I mean, mainly because I was 9 or 10 when most of these shows were premiering. My sarcastic and cynical phase was coming along, little by little, as that era progressed...but it didn't fully land until later, and therefore it didn't slam down on those shows, and make me disgusted by them.

I don't consider shows that have happy endings to be the opposite of high quality. I don't think formulaic sitcoms where everyone comes together at the end of the episode are automatically bad. And I certainly don't consider the opposite to be automatically good.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not some kind of moralizing crusader or bible thumper, or whatever. I don't think a show needs to be happy or uplifting or moralistic, either. I basically don't have ANY of those biases, as a general rule. At least, not the way that Gen-X-ers seem to have them.

Also, I could be wrong, and you might be a Gen-Z person who has gone back and watched all this stuff after the fact, and simply disagrees with me. If that's the case, I'll commend you for going back and watching stuff in 4:3 standard definition. It's usually like pulling teeth to get the young people to watch anything made before the HD era, even if it's remastered in perfect HD.

It's the aspect ratio that throws them off, which I particularly resent, on the grounds that Gen-Z has happily accepted VERTICAL VIDEO, in the form of Tik-Tok and YouTube Shorts, and that shit is abominable.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Wasn't it more that Seinfeld cemented and standardized many concepts, rather than invented them?

Regardless, doing so or even creating an entirely new genre doesn't make a show good. In fact, often a piece of media that makes an entire new genre or cements/standardizes a lot of concepts for a genre can suck because it's all new or hasn't been standardized yet, so there is a lot of floundering around to figure out how it all works

[–] [email protected] -3 points 7 months ago

That's actually a very good argument, in general terms.

However, I'd still argue that at least a dozen shows had already cemented and crafted the "show about nothing and anything and everything at once" concept, long before "Seinfeld" premiered.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I’m just glad it made stars out of Julia Louis Dreyfus and Jason Alexander. Two immensely talented people who made the most out of their paper thin characters on the show.

[–] [email protected] 76 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I also quickly stopped reading.

I never really watched Seinfeld. If it was on I saw a few minutes of it.

My problem is saying "you like this thing? Well you're WRONG."

You sound like a narcissistic child who can't fathom the idea that some people like things you don't like. Also this isn't an unpopular opinion. Like, Seinfeld was a huge show 30 years ago. I would imagine a lot of people disliked it for whatever reasons you're ranting about.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You okay? I get the unpopular opinion and actually agree with some of it but damn you are angry that people love that show. Also, I don’t think you know what the word objectively means because your whole argument about Seinfeld not being funny is complete dependent on your personal feelings about his type of humor.

I agree that Seinfeld himself isn’t funny. I also agree that the show is clearly not about nothing. It’s a show about a group of friends getting themselves into ridiculous situations. I can however say that while your opinions are valid, Seinfeld factually is the most popular sitcom of the 90s.

Anyway, like you said, your mind isn’t going to be changed and neither are the minds of the millions of people who disagree with you. Thanks for the post.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

I can take all of that on the chin, basically with the excuse that I was being somewhat hyperbolic, basically deliberately. I was certainly being deliberately provocative, when I used the word "objectively."

I don't consider myself to have been engaging in trolling, per se. It's more of a conscious choice to be abrasive about my opinion, so that anyone who DEEPLY disagrees will get two general messages:

  1. If you want to "have a go at me," as the Brits say, because you disagree with me, go ahead. I was rude enough that you won't have to feel badly about it. It's basically a roundabout sort of courtesy.

  2. On the other hand, my position is FULLY FUCKING ENTRENCHED, and you aren't going to be able to just wiggle me around to your side, with a bit of finesse.

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