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House Republicans Want to Ban Universal Free School Lunches (theintercept.com)

submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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On Wednesday, the Republican Study Committee, of which some three-quarters of House Republicans are members, released its 2025 budget entitled “Fiscal Sanity to Save America.” Tucked away in the 180-page austerity manifesto is a block of text concerned with a crucial priority for the party: ensuring children aren’t being fed at school.

Eight states offer all students, regardless of household income, free school meals — and more states are trending in the direction. But while people across the country move to feed school children, congressional Republicans are looking to stop the cause.

Republicans however view the universal version of the policy as fundamentally wasteful. The “school lunch and breakfast programs are subject to widespread fraud and abuse,” reads the RSC’s proposed yearly budget, quoting a report from the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank. The Cato report blames people who may “improperly” redeem free lunches, even if they are technically above the income cutoff levels. The “fraudulence” the think tank is concerned about is not some shadowy cabals of teachers systematically stealing from the school lunch money pot: It’s students who are being fed, even if their parents technically make too much to benefit from the program. In other words, Republicans’ opposition to the program is based on the assumption that people being “wrongly” fed at school is tantamount to abusive waste.

Not to be confused as completely frugal, the Republicans call to finish construction of border wall projects proposed by former President Donald Trump. And not to be confused as focused, the budget includes the word “woke” 37 times.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

"It’s students who are being fed, even if their parents technically make too much to benefit from the program. In other words, Republicans’ opposition to the program is based on the assumption that people being “wrongly” fed at school is tantamount to abusive waste."

TIL that a middle class family benefiting from the tax dollars they pay for is 'fraud'. Since the rich pay no taxes, they have to right to tell us what to do with our own tax dollars. Simple as. Plus, it's FOOD in the US, we grow so much that NOT diverting some of the extra crops to school lunches is pure waste.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

I thought universal meant everyone was entitled it it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Republicans: Want people to have more children

Also Republicans: Hey let's make it harder for people to care for the children they have

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

FTA:

Republicans however view the universal version of the policy as fundamentally wasteful. The “school lunch and breakfast programs are subject to widespread fraud and abuse,”

nobody knows more about fraud and abuse than Republicans

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

Oh no, do you mean we might accidentally be feeding children who might not need it?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

Oh no, do you mean we might accidentally be feeding children who might not need it?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

republicans would force women to birth children but the child would exit the mother by a slide that leads down the hallway and into a giant garbage can full of screaming babies

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

I thought this already happened five or six times over already?

None of the schools I went to had that. And no sane person would've wanted to eat that food unless they were starving and hadn't eaten in 4 weeks.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

U.S. will give billions of dollars to support genocide, but won't feed it's own children. We've surpassed biblical levels of evil.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Republicans: Will somebody think of the children?!

Republicans:

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

If the children are fed, they won't want to work in the chicken processing plants, have you considered that? What are we going to do, pay adults a living wage to process chickens? Get out of here.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Even if there are families that "take advantage" (as in, can afford school lunch themselves), so the hell what. It's just food. Maybe spend a fraction less on the federal defense budget and we could buy them all breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

I just plain think school should provide free lunch anyway. The kids are forced to be there, might as well feed 'em.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

quoting a report from the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank

As a libertarian, the Cato Institute has a lot of nonsense, and this is one of them.

Here's my take: if we require students to be in school during certain hours, the school should be obligated to provide everything they need, from supplies to meals. It's the same idea as with prisons, if we, as a society, decide that certain individuals need to be locked up, they should have their needs provided for. Same thing if we detain someone at custom for hours whatever.

On the flipside, there should be a way to opt-out for parents who don't want the school-provided lunches. There are plenty of parents who think school lunches are unhealthy, so perhaps there's an argument that they should get some kind of cash card to help pay for home-provided meals that's equivalent to the cost to make the school lunch (like $2-3/lunch). That sounds kind of complicated, so I obviously wouldn't lead with that, but maybe it'll resolve some people's concerns.

If we want to save money (and I think we should), we should shut down a few of our foreign military bases and end federal student loan programs. Those are a lot more expensive than school lunches...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Fun fact, some places do force inmates to pay for their own incarceration and will hand you a bill when you leave https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084452251/the-vast-majority-of-states-allow-people-to-be-charged-for-time-behind-bars

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

That's disgusting. If society decides someone is too dangerous to live in society, they must pay for that person to be separated from society. This is a natural check on BS laws that would otherwise be used to justify slavery.

So I consider that practice to be a violation of the eighth and the thirteenth amendments. I also think the exemption from forced labor as punishment for a crime is immoral, and argue the convicted should always be given an alternative to labor (e.g. community service as an alternative to a fine or incarceration). If not, there's a perverse incentive for jails to keep prisoners past their original sentence with additional charges heaped on top.

My state fortunately bans forced labor, and generally has decent policies around pay-to-stay. From my search, only those with a paycheck at the time of incarceration pay in some areas, and in another area, income earned in prison may be withheld to pay restitution for their victims. But AFAIK, nowhere in my state unconditionally charges fees. So I think we're doing better, but I'll look and see if the are movements to eliminate the fees we have.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

IMO guaranteed child welfare (including universal lunch) is 100% consistent with any major political idealogy that is internally consistent.

Libertarianism? The whole basis is the personal choice, autonomy, and the ethics of consent. Children fundamentally cannot consent. They still, however, individual agents. They simply are in a state where social order defines their outcome. As society, we must then take this to maximize their outcomes and ultimately their personal liberty - when they reach an age where they can operate with it.

Therefore, we have to choose between depriving others of a relatively small resource, or depriving children of a major resource: the nature of their ability to participate with full autonomy and personal liberty.

The choice, in my opinion, is very clear.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

Exactly.

I'm a fan of libertarian paternalism, which is all about society choosing good defaults because it's clear individuals often make poor choices (especially when uninformed). Individuals who can consent or who have the legal responsibility over someone else should be able to choose something different. However, you should also be legally liable for any changes to defaults you make on behalf of someone else (e.g. choosing to forego school lunches for your child and not providing a nutritious meal is theft and abuse).

This is an issue of rights. Until kids can consent, they have a right to proper nutrition and whatnot because they didn't consent to being brought into the world.

So yeah, the choices are between everyone suffering a minor inconvenience (slightly higher taxes) to guarantee the rights of children, or children suffer. It's absolutely clear, the minor inconvenience wins.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I see a big problem with the opt-out being abusive parents could pocket the money without feeding the child.

Money isn't the only barrier to food security.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Sure, and perhaps parents opting out would put a big target on their back for CPS and similar services.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You drastically overestimate how effective and well-funded CPS is.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

Perhaps it should be better funded. Protecting kids should be out first priority.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That seems way more complicated, error-prone, and expensive than just letting the kids have lunch without paying.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I'm suggesting exactly that. Kids should have lunch without paying.

If there's pushback, I'd suggest an opt-out program where parents get the value of the lunch to help pay for an alternative. If they fail to provide an adequate lunch consistently, they get charged with abuse.

But the default would be kids getting lunch without having to pay anything.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Running the opt out program would be much more complicated and expensive than just not doing that. It's a lot of work for barely any gain.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yup, probably. But sometimes extra costs are needed for a program to be equitable.

If the lunches really suck, more people will opt out and they'll need to fix the lunches. If the lunches are good, few people will opt out. If someone has dietary needs the lunch system doesn't meet, they shouldn't be required to pay for lunches they won't use.

I doubt a significant number of people will opt out, especially if the lunch system provides a decent variety to account for peoples' various dietary needs. However, I think it's a valid concern, and parents should be empowered to opt out without taking on much extra cost.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

If someone has dietary needs the lunch system doesn’t meet, they shouldn’t be required to pay for lunches they won’t use.

This is looking at it wrong. Everyone in the society pays for lunches. Even people without kids. "I don't want to spend my money on other people" is anti social and counter productive.

Really there's no such thing as 'my' money. Anyone only has anything because the rest of us let it be.

Though thinking about the bulk of what you're saying, the system would need to account for like "I have a restrictive diet". I don't think an opt out program would be a great solution though. Don't want a lot of bureaucracy around that. Don't want to let people opt out and pocket the money. Probably a mechanism where parents and students can report preferences and needs, and the menu is adjusted accordingly.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

The opt out system doesn't need to be complicated and would be way simpler than the current free lunch system. Here's how it could work:

Go to office and request an exemption (or file online)
Receive reloadable gift card that receives $X/school day (completely automated); school id is updated (needed for dietary restrictions anyway)
If teachers notice your child isn't getting lunches consistently (maybe a three strikes/year system), your exemption is revoked and CPS is notified

That's not a lot of bureaucracy, so it really shouldn't add a lot of cost. This is probably enough to get opponents on-board.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

I concede it might be possible to make the opt out system comparably simple as you describe, though I still think a system without exceptions is simpler than one with. Unfortunately, I don't think either of us are in a position to work on a project like this.

Thanks for staying polite. Good chat.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

More proof that Republicans don't care in the slightest about children one they've been born.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

They care about nobody. What was the last Republican sponsored bill that would objectively make anyone's life better?

Somehow they have their base frothing at the mouth about these Democrat-led initiatives that help folks (not just Democrats), yet they put forth no proposal to help anyone.

They are the party of taking things away from people not like them, but also the party of taking things away from people just like them. They are not the party of helping anyone. I cannot fathom how the large portion of their base who could be helped by such programs fails to see this.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

These fucks waste so much time (and money) on such stupid things. I wish the worst for them. They're evil.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

These fucks waste so much time (and money) on such stupid things.

This is actually the best argument against what they are doing. I fully support not paying for other kids food when they dont need it, but if we spend a trillion on military every year, they dont care about fiscal conservatism.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I did finance for a large school district in another life and the sad thing is, it's simply cheaper to just give everyone free lunch, than to have monitored programs. It only financially makes sense in affluent districts where very few children receive it. And there are less of those than you would think.

So this is especially evil to me.

Another anecdote is we got a grant and had no idea what the hell to use it for (because grants are annoyingly specific) but we figured out we could use it for breakfast. So we just rolled out free breakfast for all elementary and middle school students, eventually high school option too. That seemed to increase test scores more than any other change the whole time I was there.

A related anecdote is the free breakfast program basically saved a teacher from going broke on apple buying. She came from an affluent district, and in her previous classroom she would leave a bowl of a dozen apples on her desk and replenish as needed to encourage students to eat healthier, because she noticed the kids were eating a lot of pop tarts, dunkin donuts stuff, muffins, etc. Not many kids took up the apple offer. She comes over to our district, sets up her classroom and doesn't realize that most of these kids didn't have a poptart to their name, and were lucky to score a toast em pop up every once in a while. So first day all apples gone, next day she brings in more. By the end of the month the poor woman is buying like a bushel of apples or more a week... Finally the breakfast program started and she could catch a break. She would have bankrupted herself on apples.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

Means testing has always been the best way to destroy a public good.

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