this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2024
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Unpopular Opinion

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There's this rising narrative going around that if you ask specifically for a CIS partner, you're a transphobe. That could be true for some people but it's not fundamentally related to bigotry. Moreover, this narrative, the "if you only want a CIS mate then that is prejudice" is trampling on one of the most important rights a person can have: the right to choose who they want to get intimate with.

First of all, transmen are in fact men and transwomen are in fact women. Let's get that out of the way. This isn't a foot in the door for "trans this really isn't that" narratives. What this is about it is the freedom to choose who you want to be intimate with. That right is sancrosanct, it is absolutely inviolable.

And yes, there's plenty of issues that make transgender dating a special issue. If someone reveals their TG status they can be open to hate crimes and even deadly violence. However all marginalized groups are special in their own way. As a black man I don't think it's racist if a woman says she doesn't want to date a black man. I face oppression, too. My class is special in its own way. One group isn't more special than the other. None of us have the right to force ourselves upon those who don't want to be intimate with us, even by omitting who we really are.

Really, if you have to deceive or hide who you are in order to date someone, do you really want to date them? I wouldn't. That's not fair to you and you're denying them their right to choose who they want. What do you think will happen when the person wants a CIS mate and they discover the truth? They're going to get pissed and dump you. Now you have to shame them into staying with you: "If you loved me for real this wouldn't bother you"... that's not going to convince anyone. They're either going to leave, or they'll resent you forever. That's just how it is. You can be mad at that but that's about as effective as protesting the rising of the sun. There's just no way to win once you've gone down that road.

"I want a CIS mate" is not the same as "trans women are not women" - one is a preference, the other is harmful prejudice. On the flip side CIS people who do date trans people shouldn't be shamed for their choices either. A man should be free to date a trans woman and not catch flak about it. Trans people should be able to be openly trans and not face hate speech or threats to their well-being. This, without any exception whatsoever.

The fundamental fact is when you shame or worse abrogate people's right to choose who they want to get intimate with, it's not going to end well for you. All you're going to get is people who resent being coerced or bullied to date people they don't want to. And that's not something the country, or the world, will ever put up with. Except that right now, most people don't imagine they can be labeled a transphobe just for wanting a CIS mate. And unpopular opinion: that should be nipped in the bud.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Am I weird in that I think it's weird to announce that kind of thing on a dating profile? Like, I'm on all the dating apps and people generally don't get access to me until there's a mutual agreement to match, right? Unless you're swiping on everyone or they're actively trying to hide it, are you matching with a lot of trans folk? Are you so inundated by these matches that you feel the need to announce these preferences up front? I can't imagine it's so many that you can't just have a polite conversation when it comes up and explain the preference? It's the whole need to announce it, knowing how it could come off, that makes people question the intent. If you were at the bar and someone you're attracted to comes up to talk, do you stop them and say "before you go any further, know that I only date cis people."?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

See your main problem is that you were dumb enough to try going on a dating app to begin with

It's pretty well established by now that those things are basically useless save for a lucky few

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

I am the dad of a transgender person and I agree. Sexual and romantic attraction should never be held to the same standard. The heart (and the genitals) wants what it wants

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

The underlying issue is that dating apps just need better filters. An ideal one would be were you could filter out any deal breakers.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I'm trans. I think the reason people get upset is because of the reason behind the preference. That reason can be totally valid, to totally shitty, and people assume either the best or the worst depending on their perspective usually. A trans person seeing this might assume "oh boy another transphobe" while a cis person would think "yep and I won't date a person who owns cats because I'm deadly allergic" and carry on.

On top of that a blanket "I won't date trans people" rule tends to ignore "outliers" like nonbinary, intersex, or gender fluid people, which can feel pretty bad when the underlying reason doesn't fit the actual real life scenario you might be in.

Here's a few reasons behind the preference that I can think of:

  • I'm straight and want bio kids - Fair enough, either your partner is cis or they aren't compatible for that goal, or you're getting into the nonbinary grey area.

  • I don't want to deal with the extra baggage, potential judgement from peers, or mental/physical health comorbidities that come with transition - kinda bleh but its your choice and only you can really decide what you're willing to invite on yourself, but it feels crappy for trans people who definitely didn't ask to be trans either.

  • I'm attracted to specific genital configurations - that's your preference, but it sort of ignores any post op trans people, which feels really shitty if as a trans person you've done this major surgery to be happier and more yourself, and people just assume you haven't, and won't talk to or engage with you over something you already changed, through a very intensive and difficult process. Overall though genital preferences are perfectly fine, people just don't like saying "I only like penis" because it sounds weird, so they substitute "I only like cis men" thinking that's a less awkward alternative.

  • I don't think trans people are who they identify as - real shit and the kind of people most are actually mad at when people day "I won't date trans people.

Anyways, I'm sure there are more, but the point I'm trying to make is, saying you won't date trans people is just kinda vague. Many people will assume the worst, which is on them, but it would help to clarify and be clear about what your real preference is, or why you have it. For instance "I want to have bio kids someday, so if we aren't compatible on that level then that is a dealbreaker" or "I'm straight and I'm only interested in Cis or post op trans women" which with a couple extra words clearly portrays that its a genital preference without explicitly saying it.

TLDR: having preferences is perfectly fine but when people judge you it's because it isn't clear why you have that preference, and usually ignores outliers. Clarification, while maybe a bit longer or more complicated, would eliminate the anger in most cases. The people who still get upset are likely to be angry no matter what.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

The main problem with this is: Nobody should have to justify or explain anything.

The oddest thing about this whole post is that people who may or may not have been in a group that was attacked or judged over who they are are... attacking and judging people over who they are. It makes no sense to me.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

I’d like to congratulate OP for handling a difficult subject in a way that’s both straightforward and thoughtful!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think the trickiest part is that trans people generally have spent a lot more time thinking about their sexuality and identity than most cis people. Most cis people (or at least cishet) have put basically 0 thought into it. They cant articulate better than "straight", and if you probe further they would just say "I like men/women". They cant fully identifyor explain what it is about the opposite sex specifically they are attracted to because they often havent had to think about it ever. And if genitals are a factor in that attraction, then it may be pretty important. Some people may be able to see past that. Some may not. But we shouldn't force someone to date somebody they arent attracted to, even if they cant eloquently fully explain why they arent attracted.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Why do you shout cis every time you say it? I agree that I don't have any interest in dating someone who doesn't want to date me but I'm very confused about the yelling.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Some folks are merely in the habit of capitalizing acronyms. It isn’t necessarily yelling.

Edit: whoops - I don’t think cis is actually an acronym. Pardon my ignorance!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's not, that's why I was confused. At least, when you talk about cis people or cisalpine Gaul it isn't. When you talk about the CIS from Star Wars, then it is :p

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Yeah, I edited my comment shortly after that. I was wrong.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

That is a holdover from when I thought cis was an acornym. Sorry!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

I hope this isn't actually an unpopular opinion. People objectively have a type of what they do and don't want. Specification is a good thing and will help people find their match faster. The last thing a person, either trans or not trans would want, is to spend time with someone who will never work for them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Personally I agree. Personally one of the biggest factors that makes me want to get into a relationship in the first place is more or less to make a kid. Sure adoptions are a thing but like I just don't see myself getting turned on by sex with someone who doesn't have a vagina. The most I can see her doing for me is a hand job. Shallow yea but that's just kinda biology. I can't see anyone making me enjoy a trans woman anymore than you can make a gay dude enjoy a cis woman. And all that's not even mentioning I live in a place where parents still pressure their children to make grandkids.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A transwoman has a vagina post-op. But again this part is irrelevant IMHO. Freedom to choose is sancrosanct. If you date a transwoman it should also be with zero consequence.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Forgive me, but I'd say a vagina, or lack thereof, is pretty damned important to most of us.

If a woman started out with a penis? Meh, I might go for that. But I certainly want to engage in "normal" sex, and there's nothing wrong with that. And I'd think you agree.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (19 children)

I'm a transwoman and I agree with you on this. When I was dating, I was upfront and when a guy said it was a deal breaker, it saved both of us a lot of time.

Most guys I talked to said it was a dealbreaker, and yeah it sucks. It makes you feel "othered." But I can't expect anyone to go outside their sexual comfort zone for a rando on Tinder.

Most of the guys were very polite about it all, too. And that's all you should need to do.

If someone's shaming you about it, that's a good sign they have something going on in their own life. Essentially it's their problem, not yours.

Hope this helps~

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Oh boy do I have a load of dumb questions, if you'll humor me? For context, I'm a middle-aged, cis, white guy. Dated a lot the last few years, settled down and just married the finest woman I've ever known.

What does "transwoman" mean? LOL, I don't even know how to approach this. For me, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck, good enough. I'd date a transwoman that was, uh, "completely" a woman. Gods I hope you know what I mean.

OK, I'll go with my wife, maybe clear it up. She's a Filipina, unapologetically feminine. All else being the same, if she had been born with a penis, wouldn't care. Among 100 other things, I so love her femininity.

Am I embarrassing myself? Sure feels like it. Never had any trans friends, or even known any trans folks. Anyhow, I hope you understand I'm on your side, all the way. (That's not a cutesy slogan. I train, I carry, I mean it with all my heart. If it comes to it, no one is going on a train if I can help it.)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thank you for your response. I feel I must repeat in case it is ambiguous: I am absolutely against any form of trans shaming whatsoever. If you want to date a trans person, you should be 100% free to do so without negative social consequence.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Not ambiguous. You're good 😜

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

"I want to announce that I have no intention of allowing myself to get to know a certain type of person"

"Why are people treating me like I'm a certain type of person, who people wouldn't like to get to know?"

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Are you purposefully distorting their words? Since when getting to know is the same as possibly having sex, having a baby and get married?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Getting to know someone and dating them are two very different things.

I know lots of people that I have absolutely no desire to date. That doesn’t mean I’m bigoted against them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You have to date someone to get to know them? That's kind of sad.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not me. I'll happily get to know and befriend LGBTQ. And go vigilante if I see them being threatened. I have a 12 year old son and if he wants to date a transgirl she's welcome in my house as his girlfriend.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Freedom goes both ways.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

on the flip side, people should be able to say they want a trans partner.

real talk though, no one should be deceiving anyone if they plan to start a healthy relationship with someone, period.

I'm stealth trans in public and don't feel it's necessary to come out to every one i meet or even work with. But if I'm flirting with someone or know someone has an interest in me, I respect them enough to let them know.

it all comes back to the idea that you don't need to know what someone's genitals look like unless you plan on fucking them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

on the flip side, people should be able to say they want a trans partner.

Yes, absolutely, I mentioned that part already. Freedom goes both ways. No one should be shamed for choosing to date a trans partner.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Chasers suck for trans people big time. This is a logical fallacy. It's different if a trans person says they're only doing T4T to a cis person.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can you elaborate on this? Is it the usual fetishism (similar to what Asian women often experience) or is it different?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

what Asian women often experience

You got me laughing and thinking at once.

Just married my Filipina. First Asian I ever dated. Didn't seek Asian women, had zero expectations.

I know a lot of guys want a tiny, submissive, tradwife (fuck me I loathe that word). "Ew, gross! Not me, not EVER!", I thought. Well... here we are.

She had me watching Filipina videos last month, to help me understand what Filipina women want, help me understand her culture. "Old white guys?! Hell fucking yes all day long!", is what I got out of it.

"So what I gather is that I can go to the Philippines and trade you in on a hot 19-yo that will worship the ground I walk on?" 🤣

She's said, straight up, that she always wanted a white American. She was also so she was afraid I was fetishizing her as an "exotic" Asian. Go figure. 🤷🏻‍♂️

It's been a very strange, and lovely, experience. I'm trying to help her be more independent, show her that we're equals, financially and emotionally. Sometimes it's a challenge.

Yes, I can feed myself and wash my own clothes, back off a bit. But she feels like it's her role to provide, and I'm taking from her by not taking from her. Fuck me, I've dated Mississippi girls that could strap on a ball gown, get their makeup game on, change their oil and shoot like Annie Oakly. This is all new to me.

Sorry. I don't have anyone else to talk about this with and your comment got me thinking. And laughing at how strange life sometimes turns out.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think I that's a concept that cis straight people don't get. You don't come out once. You have a big coming out, once, to friends and family. Then every new person you meet, you decide whether to tell them outright, whether to subtly tell them, or whether you don't tell them. Each time, you're considering if you'll meet them again, if it serves a purposes of it feels like hiding, your safety, whether it will affect their opinion of you and so be to your disadvantage etc. It's tiring.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is it not more tiring to come out to someone you're more emotionally invested in, though?

There's obviously the safety issues that the OP mentioned, but wouldn't it be easier to not have to deal with an eventual reveal?

Why invest the time and energy into someone who has that much higher a chance that they'll deny you when you come out?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Just put "want to one day have kids" in your profile, then get over it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Adoption is a thing...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You need to go outside and touch grass, holy cow you're online too much.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As always lemmy's gotta dogpile. You're basically right though. Most people on lemmy don't seem to interact with normal people on a day to day basis. Nobody in the real world talks or gives 2 cents about this shit. (that's a figurative nobody, not a literal nobody)

If you're running into people shaming you about "CIS" this or that...you're lookin' in the wrong places. Most normal people are male or female, and want the opposite sex partner.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

1: not unpopular

2: if this is a scenario you are actually seeing in real life, you should find better people to hang out with.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's stuff I encounter online. But stuff online festers for years, and then erupts in real life. MAGA and QANON, for instance, was festering from USENET in the 1990s and forums thereafter. I watched it happen. Everyone ignored it, and now look where we are. MAGA of course is a whole different scale of true horror but still. This mentality I'm mentioning is festering. All cancers begin this way.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

I saw some people online saying Nazis were good.

Unpopular opinion: I think Nazis are bad.

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