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World won’t forget Tiananmen Square, US and Taiwan say on 36th anniversary of massacre (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 5 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

261 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Date of 4 June remains one of China’s strictest taboos, with government using increasingly sophisticated tools to censor its discussion

There is no official death toll but activists believe hundreds, possibly thousands, were killed by China’s People’s Liberation Army in the streets around Tiananmen Square, Beijing’s central plaza, on 4 June 1989.

The date of 4 June remains one of China’s strictest taboos, and the Chinese government employs extensive and increasingly sophisticated resources to censor any discussion or acknowledgment of it inside China. Internet censors scrub even the most obscure references to the date from online spaces, and activists in China are often put under increased surveillance or sent on enforced “holidays” away from Beijing.

New research from human rights workers has found that the sensitive date also sees heightened transnational repression of Chinese government critics overseas by the government and its proxies.

(page 6) 22 comments

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (13 children)

Let's not forget Faris Odeh

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faris_Odeh

A picture of Odeh standing alone in front of a tank, with a stone in his hand and arm bent back to throw it, was taken by a photojournalist from the Associated Press on 29 October 2000. Ten days later, on 8 November, Odeh was again throwing stones at Karni when he was shot in the neck by an Israeli soldier.

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[–] [email protected] 123 points 5 days ago (50 children)

As an American I think it's helpful to put this into some sort of perspective.

Things the US won't forget:

Tiananmen Square (thousands dead)

Things the US will forget:

Korean War (3mil civilian dead)
Vietnam War (2mil civilian dead)
Iraqi War (1mil civilian dead)
Violent overthrow of East Timor (widely considered a genocide)
Violent overthrow of Afghanistan (twice, over 1 mil dead)
Violent overthrow of Nicaragua
Violent overthrow of Grenada
Violent overthrow of Panama
Violent overthrow of Libya
Coup d'etat of Guatemala
Coup d'etat of Iran
Failed Coup d'etat of Syria
Failed Coup d'etat of Indonesia
Many failed Coup d'etat attempts on Cuba
Coup d'etat of Congo
Coup d'etat of Laos
Coup d'etat of the Dominican Republic
Coup d'etat of Iraq
Coup d'etat of Brazil
Successful Coup d'etat of Indonesia (1 mil dead)
Coup d'etat of Chile
Multiple Coup d'etat of Bolivia
Coup d'etat of Haiti
Multiple Coup d'etat attempts on Venezuela
Coup d'etat of Palestine
Mass civilian casualties, destabilization of many governments, people subject to a lifetime of torture without a trial, all under the War on Terror

This list could be so much longer, but I gotta get to work.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

And we know the extent of US involvement in these coups and conflicts because the US declassified the info, becauase all info becomes declassified eventually.

When is the Dictatorship of China going to admit that this happened, when will they declassify the internal documents about this atrocity they were responsible for?

That's the problem people have with the Chinese government. They can't even acknowledge reality because they seek to eventually change the records of what really happened to pretend they did no wrong.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (6 children)

Things the US will forget:

Korean War (3mil civilian dead)

Vietnam War (2mil civilian dead)

Iraqi War (1mil civilian dead)

Imagine thinking that the US has forgotten any of these when they're a constantly pressure on the cultural zeitgeist even literal decades later. Or, for that matter, that the Korean War is in any way comparable.

Violent overthrow of Afghanistan (twice, over 1 mil dead)

Twice? Christ, tell me you aren't talking about the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Not to mention that the 'overthrow' of 'Afghanistan' the second time would rely on recognizing the Taliban, and not the democratically-oriented Northern Alliance which was fighting them at the time, as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, just recently I rewatched Apocalypse Now. And I've never been to the U.S. or Vietnam. I agree, this is pretty much alive in cultural memory, not forgotten.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Most of that looks right, but

Violent overthrow of East Timor (widely considered a genocide)

Ok, this was Indonesia, with murican quiet assent, but still, don't give other countries a pass on these things to make them look clean.

Many of these also involved the local elites going to the US for help. e.g. The draft UN resolution for the no-fly zone in Lybia was produced by the Arab League and backed by the African Union, which pressured russia and China not to veto it.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Never forget says country engaged in rewriting its own history.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 days ago (5 children)

Which country do you think The Guardian is from?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 days ago

Things only come from murikkka. The American exceptionalism is rife.

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[–] [email protected] 106 points 5 days ago (6 children)

"Never forget" is great and all but from a German perspective it seems to not be enough. It is much more important to make sure the same or very similar things do not happen again, not by China and not by any other nation. Otherwise you end up like we did here in Germany where decades of "never forget" lead to very similar sentiments being expressed by a new major party but since things are slightly different (e.g. the "never forget" was always phrased to be about Jews, this is more about foreigners in general) people seem to allow themselves to ignore them.

[–] [email protected] 80 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

"Never again":

❌ "We must never do what we did to the Jews in WW2 again".
✅ "We can never allow what we did to the Jews in WW2 to happen again to anyone".

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