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91°F (32.7°C) in the factory I work at.
The law states "all factories must maintain a reasonable temperature and humidity."
Nowhere is reasonable ever defined. I am mildly infuriated. And very hot lol
Edit: 94° (34.4C) now and this post has made it close to the top of "Hot"... The gods are having a laugh lol
So, uh... We have the same thermostat at my job. It's not great. You can't just tell it what temperature you want the room to be, you actually have to tell it if you want it to heat or cool to that temperature.
Yours is set set to 65, but if you look to the left of the current temp, it says "heat." Someone likely forgot to change that when the weather warmed up. IIRC, one of the three unlabeled middle buttons will fix that.
Lol I appreciate the help, but there is literally no AC unit. All we have is oil heat for the winter so the pipes don't freeze
literally in the danger zone unless it's super dry where you are.
Caution at below 27 °C (80 F)? Always? Why is there no "OK" zone?
I believe it's because this table is for apparent temperature while exerting yourself.
It's literally in the extreme caution zone.
Edited to add, I'm not good at reading charts, explanation below.
I assumed 60% RH since that's what it is on average in the heat dome currently.
Nowhere on your chart, at any humidity, are the temperatures mentioned in OP in the danger zone. They are in the extreme caution zone.
I believe the temperatures within the chart are "feels like" temperatures rather than absolute temperatures. The X axis shows absolute values (what would likely show on the thermostat).
At OPs original temperature (91°F) the danger zone would be around 60-70% and higher. At OPs last updated temperature (94°F), the danger zone would be 55% or higher.
Well aren't I dumb! Cheers.
Highway to the extreme caution zone just doesn’t have that ring to it.
Thanks for the image, I'm definitely saving that for future use!
Apparently we're in "extreme caution," even though it feels humid the forecast says we're around 50% humidity
They didn't even set the fan to "on" mode!
I work in environmental, health, and safety, and industrial hygiene, so workplace safety is my jam. You are correct that the regs are shit. Unless you live in one of five states with heat related regulations, you're really only covered by OSHA's general duty clause, which can be summed up as "employers have to at least make a good faith effort to do the bare minimum to not hurt their employees". It sucks.
For workplace temperature, what you'll want to look at is wet-bulb temperature, not the dry-bulb reading provided by a thermostat. You can find online calculators that'll calculate it by temperature and relative humidity. Wet bulb is the measurement accounting for evaporative cooling, so a better approximation of what temperature a human body experiences. Theoretically, a wet-bulb temperature of 35°C (95°F) or more isn't sustainable and will always lead to heat illness with sustained exposure. Around 30°C (about 85°F) is where we start seeing issues if people don't consider any steps to avoid heat illness.
It gets tricky from there as there are a ton of variables to determining a safe temperature, e.g., hydration, environmental radiant heat, cardiovascular health, level of acclimation, nature of the work, body mass, break frequency, access to air conditioned spaces, etc.
For example, at 94°F, a healthy adult performing moderate physical activity out of the sun (or away from any other heat source) should be fine up to about 75% humidity (so a wet bulb of 85°F), assuming they are dressed appropriately, acclimated to the temperature, remain hydrated, take periodic rest breaks in an air conditioned space (I’d advise 10 minutes on the hour, maybe more). I also recommend a monitoring/emergency response program
Let me know if I can help at all. I love heat, but working in it is just miserable.
Thank you for the detailed response! I'll have to keep an eye on the wet bulb temperature for future discussions about the heat at work.
The regulations really are frustrating especially since I've reached out to local "representatives" about how vague they are and naturally got no response lol
Of course! And seriously, hit me up if you need any EHS advice or some real official sounding verbiage. I got laid off so I suddenly have a lot of free time.
I'm sorry to hear that! I definitely appreciate your help, I hope you're able to find something soon!
Lucky. 100° f in mine rn.
Pass out from heat exhaustion and then sue them
Do you guys make sweatshirts and sweatpants?
By the end of the day we do!
Not the kind you'd buy, unless it's some strange Japanese used clothing vending machine lol
We used to have sector wide unions. So even if you were employed by a small business with a few employees, you were still covered by a larger union.
I have family members who really appreciated the neck mounted fans that blow up at back of neck. relatively cheap at like 20-35.
Might be worth getting a giant insulated water bottle to fill with ice, or bringing your own mini fridge and plugging it in somewhere. You could also try getting a Dr note saying you need accommodation - supply of ice water or cooling vests.
I don't know what kind of work you do, but I've worked in factories and manufacturing my whole career and this isn't that unusual in my experience. I'd definitely be raising my pitchforks if you weren't provided water, breaks, and some methods of cooling (such as fans).
Worst I've ever had was in a paper mill. The dryers ran very hot and sometimes our job required getting really close to them. They were hot enough to burn, so long sleeves were required when near them. Easily had some 40+ °C days in there, but we had access to a cooled break room and allowed quite a lot of breaks.
Still, when we did have to work by those dryers, it was usually because the paper broke and caused big jams. That is a hell of a mess and has to be cleaned up as quickly as possible to get the machine making paper again. Let me tell you, wet paper is heavy. Hauling that shit down the length of the dryer alley, in 40+ heat, in mandatory sleeves and long pants... Some of the hardest work I've personally ever done.
Pay was great though.
Good on them for at least trying to provide something! I'm in manufacturing and we thankfully lack the 40+C issues, but we also lack the great pay and cool break room lol if it's bad enough on our allotted breaks (2 15min per day + lunch) we'll just go to our cars and run the AC. They don't give any extra time to cool off though just the same break structure as usual.
I vote we rename this comm to "infuriating" and have people bring their own adjectives to their post
The OSHA recommendation is 68-76F, which isn't a direct link to 'reasonable' but provides a suitable context to frame workplace conditions.
If people's body temperatures can be measured exceeding 100F a link to heat stress and increasing risk of injury in the workplace can also be drawn as it's generally the equivalent of working with a fever.
Fun fact: OSHA recommendations aren't enforceable. Not supporting this, but the only way you can get traction on workplace temperature (unless you're in California, Colorado, Minnesota, Oregon, or Washington) is under the general duty clause. While a smart employer keeps their employees safe and reasonably comfortable, all federal OSHA requires is that you vaguely don't hurt them.
Environmental temps that high put you a serious risk of heat stroke, though. That seems like a pretty clear health and safety violation.
From OSHA: Exposure to Outdoor and Indoor Heat‑Related Hazards
Dangers of Exposure to Heat Hazards
Exposure to heat hazards both outdoors and indoors could lead to serious illness, injury, or death. Heat-related illnesses and injuries can happen at varying ambient temperatures, especially in cases where workers are not acclimated, perform moderate or higher physical activity, or wear heavy or bulky clothing or equipment, including personal protective equipment. Heat-related illnesses and injuries also generally occur when body heat generated by physical work is performed in conditions of high ambient heat, especially when combined with humidity and inadequate cooling.
Heat Index
The National Weather Service (NWS) uses a heat index (HI) to classify environmental heat into four categories:
- Caution (80°F – 90°F HI);
- Extreme Caution (91°F – 103°F HI);
- Danger (103°F – 124°F HI); and,
- Extreme Danger (126°F or higher HI).
It sounds like you’re in the Extreme Caution (and sometimes in the Danger) category.
OSHA mentions a Heat Safety Tool app in that document, too.
Here’s their Heat Stress Guide, too, which says:
The Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSH Act) requires employers to comply with hazard-specific safety and health standards. In addition, pursuant to Section 5(a)(1) of the OSH Act, employers must provide their employees with a workplace free from recognized hazards likely to cause death or serious physical harm.
Enforceability does vary, but OP should know this sounds like a pretty blatant violation and may be enforceable.
Preface: I work in environmental, health, and safety, and industrial hygiene, so this is my job. Not stating I know all there is to know, just that I know some.
The problem is those are all recommendations, not regulations, so nothing there is enforceable. The NWS heat index advice is meant for the general population without accounting for any mitigating conditions - it's a catch-all recommendation. It's meant for you, me, and my 400 pound, 90 year old neighbor with congestive heart failure, all sitting in direct sun without any water or moving air. Millions of people work in hotter conditions on a regular basis, and can do so safely as long as extensive precautions are taken. It's not comfortable, but it's safe as long as people are smart about it. Is OP's employer being smart? Maybe. Let's go through it together!
Let's go off of Cal/OSHA's guidelines, which is a decent program. I think it needs a hard "stop working it's too damn hot" cutoff, but that's just me (and every other safety person). Anyhow... if OP has hit 95°F, with a relative humidity of 50%, their heat index is 105. For anything above 80°F, employees need access to a nearby cooler rest area below 82°F. A work environment at 87+°F (82°F w/ hot clothing or high radiant heat) triggers a further response from the employer, foremost in the form of feasible engineering controls - things that make it cooler. This could include air conditioning but, for a larger workplace environment, often ends up being ventilation in the form of big industrial fans since HVAC is massively expensive. Don't discount the fans, though - I got one at auction and they seriously kick ass. If the employer can afford HVAC but opts for fans, it's still legal as long as fans work sufficiently (i.e., this wouldn't fly in a foundry but is fine in many factories), but the employer is just a piece of shit. 'Murica! Past that, we go to administrative controls - changing what people do. This includes mandatory 14 day acclimation periods for new employees, breaks in an air-conditioned space, scheduled hydration, monitoring for non-acclimated employees, and an emergency response plan. Then we're on to PPE - neck fans, cooling vests, ice packs, etc. The stuff you use when everything else still doesn't quite cut it.
I don't know the exact details of op's workplace but, based on what they've communicated, their workplace likely isn't a serious hazard for a reasonably healthy, heat-acclimated adult taking at least most of the above heat illness precautions. I need more info (like if they're working with ovens or other heat producing equipment) but my professional, somewhat off-the-cuff recommendation is employees be dressed appropriately, acclimated to the temperature, remain hydrated, take periodic rest breaks in an air conditioned space (I’d advise 10 minutes on the hour, maybe more), and implement a monitoring/emergency response program. Work won't be comfortable, but it's unlikely to hurt anyone based on my current, incomplete understanding. Is their boss a giant turd for not getting HVAC when building a helipad was a consideration? Definitely.
Yep, and precisely why there is the need to develop an argument in defining 'reasonable' instead of just citing the applicable law or regulation. The OSHA recommendation provides a less arbitrary foundation for defining a reasonable temperature.
I brought that up once during a health and safety meeting, but the issue is the state law being so vague we can't really force a change and since this isn't a corporation they seem less inclined to care about legal issues. We're just a small "mom and pop" factory, like the health and safety meeting I have is myself and the QA inspection guy lol From how he's described his interactions with "the office" in relation to things mentioned in the meetings they seem to just want us to write down the minutes of the meetings as a formality for OSHA if they ever did come to inspect.
I'll mention it again so it is on record multiple times though.
Can you break the office ac? Or repeatedly set it to the warehouse temp every time you walk by it.
Edit: because it's considered reasonable (elsewhere in the comments), call it a cost savings measure.
Complain that it isn’t reasonable.
We have lol for "them" unreasonable is when the thermostat reads 100° which it just so happens to never hit... We get 98° pretty regularly in the summers, but I've only ever seen 99° as the highest not 100...
I have a thermostat that looks just like that at home. It doesn’t go to 100°, like the other commenter said.
As a UXD who was a firmware dev for products (not thermostats, but similar things), in looking at this display, I’d bet money it’s not capable of showing numbers past 99. The layout doesn’t seem to allow space for more than a 2 digit temp reading.
The ‘heat’ and ‘fan’ indicators on either side of the temp reading are in a fixed location, so the temp display would max at 99. It’s highly plausible the real temperature exceeds that as you say.
Are you in the US? This situation feels like something OSHA would frown upon.
Also noticed it's a Honeywell Home version. Most likely not "industrial" grade and would have no reason to show beyond 99.
It is "hilarious" that you would mention that because I joked with the guys at work that I bet they bought a thermostat that isn't capable of reading 100° lol
I'm in the US, and OSHA has only ever shown up once on a perfect 75° day and we apparently had notice ahead that they were coming.
I doubt they did that intentionally – i think many indoor thermostats don’t allow space past 99 (I just checked mine, and it doesn’t either), because that’s an unreasonable temperature for indoor spaces, and would be such an edge case that display space is more important from a design perspective.
The point is that’s an unreasonable temperature. Sorry they’re treating you like this. Makes me angry for you.
You're not alone! I worked 12 hours in 37°C (99°F), 47% humidity yesterday. However, we get essentially unlimited breaks in an air conditioned break room, have cooling vests filled with ice packs we can wear on the floor, and are supplied with sports drinks and feeezies. Your work can't really make the world less hot, but they can work with you to avoid development of heat related illnesses!
The cooling vests are something I should bring up in my next health and safety meeting! I doubt they'll buy them, but at least we'll have it on record that it was brought up lol
We used to have a purchasing agent that would buy water and stuff when it got really hot, but now we have one that argues about buying stuff we need to actually do our job let alone feel comfortable doing it lol
Only takes one or two employees to pretend to have heat stroke/exhaustion and get a work sponsored trip to the hospital to force a change in the working environment.
Really would be safer for everyone to have someone pretend rather than wait until someone actually has one.
Just did a stint at Lowe's and we had all the cold, bottled water we could drink. The cost is a no-brainer vs. even one heat-related issue. Use the words "worker's comp insurance" at that meeting!
My mom has a similar situation at Home Depot, she actually said they finally adjusted the temperature when the customers complained. Naturally they couldn't care less about the employees, but at least they did provide water.
What's a few heat strokes of disposable employees when owners can get richer?
He literally threatened to move the shop because the town wouldn't let him build a helipad for himself lol
Rich people problems
These are the vests we have: TechNiche CoolPax. They're okay. I find the ice packs melt quickly and freeze slowly but they're good for temporary relief. My company initially bought these to be worn under hot PPE like hazmat suits, but even just having a bunch of ice packs in a freezer you can take out on the floor to hold onto could work.
A few hundred bucks of cooling stuff vs how many tens or hundred thousands if everyone keels over?