Those kids are very brave. School bullying is no joke. My daughter was bullied so harshly in her middle school that we had to pull her out of school and put her in online school. The school administration did nothing for her and they'll do even less than nothing for kids in this club that get bullied by religious students. I feel really bad for them in that regard and I hope they make it through without too much scarring.
this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2024
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The school administration did nothing for her and they’ll do even less than nothing for kids in this club that get bullied by religious students.
I think part of the purpose of the club is to create a sense of shared identity and form a collective defense mechanism against bullying by aggressive students and administrators.
Of course, this gives the administration one big target to smash rather than a bunch of little targets. But that's the nature of organizing in defiance of a violent and oppressive authority.
Maybe, but as kids found out who formed a Gay-Straight Alliance group in my high school back in the 90s, being united doesn't really stop the bullying.
The Gay-Straight Alliances formed back in the 90s were critical to establishing the LGBT population as a real and recognizable social cohort in need of a distinct codified set of legal rights. Prior to the formation of these groups, it was entirely too common for kids to be taught in school that gay relationships were a sign of physical and sexual abuse, a mental illness, and a moral perversion. Having a community in the school of out-kids who could testify to the contrary made a huge difference in how the subsequent generation of students (and their parents - I got to watch in real time family friends go from implicit bigots to LGBT advocates) perceived of the LGBT population.
Being united doesn't stop the bullying immediately. But it brings bullying into sharp relief and turns it into a conflict between groups rather than a social stigma against individuals.
I don't disagree with you, but these are the first group of kids doing this club, so they're going to face the brunt of the bullying, which is why I said they were brave and why I hope it doesn't scar them.
they’re going to face the brunt of the bullying
They likely already were facing a lot of bullying. I'm old enough to remember people claiming that being gay meant you could give people AIDS from a toilet seat. I had a Health textbook that described "gay bowel syndrome" as a chronic condition caused by intimacy. Nevermind the teacher-sponsored religious groups that talked about how sinful it was to express any kind of affection towards one another. Just enormous amounts of misinformation, fear, and hate. And if you were a singular Out voice, it all got directed at you.
Clubs like this are as much an immediate defensive measure and emotional support group as a long-term progressive spearhead.
Which isn't to say that spearheading the project doesn't take an immense amount of bravery (and hard work and some exceptional social skills). But I think it mistakes the pre-organized LGBT community as somehow enjoying security through obscurity, rather than a population that simply suffered in silence.
"RELIGIOUS FREEDO-No, not like that!"
You have the freedom to be a Christian, but anything else and you're not a Real American ^TM.^
ps: And if you're the wrong variety of Christian we'll be watching you.
What infuriates me about articles like this is that it really should just say that the school Satanic Club had its first meeting, the kids had a great time, here's everything they did and what they plan to do for the year, and here are some kids' reactions and quotes about the club.
Instead, it says the kids had "a great time" and then moves on to the protesters, offering them several paragraphs to spew their vile hate speech, repeating the garbage that their hate-filled signs say, and then even quoting two people. And then it follows that with basically an advertisement for "the Good News club, a Christian evangelical Bible club that meets before school hours."
It's a sign of how biased society is towards religion that an article about a non-theistic after school club gives half of the article to a handful of religious bigots to let them spew their hate speech and then promotes their own Christian school club.
Love using kids as political pawns
The kids formed the club themselves with TST's approval. Should they not be allowed to form a club if they want to?
Do you think elementary school kids woke up one day and decided to spontaneously join together with other elementary school kids to reach out to the local Satanist chapter to invite them to bring more schoolwork?
Come on. Kids just want to play. The Christians, the Satanists and especially the kids parents are all complicit in using children for political gain.
My daughter has been an outspoken atheist since she was six years old since she told her grandmother, "grandma, when I stay over at your house on the weekends, I don't want to go to church with you, because I don't really believe in god." And none of it has been at my prompting in any way. I haven't been quiet to her about what I personally think, but I also have made it very clear to her that other people think other things and it's up to her to figure out what she believes. She's still an atheist at 13. She's far too shy to open such a club. If my shitty private elementary school existed now and I knew about those clubs by the time I was in fifth or sixth grade, I would have formed one because I wasn't shy. You do not give kids enough credit.
So you're agreeing that the kids probably didn't start an after school Satanists club by themselves?
The article says that it's elementary school, so we're not talking about 13 year olds. These kids are much younger.
I'm glad to hear that your daughter is living her truth.
No, I'm literally saying the opposite. I have no idea how you got that from what I said.
You said that your daughter didn't start a special interest group because she was shy. Similarly, 8 or 9 year old kids probably didn't seek out the local chapter of the Satanists. Someone told them to do this.
I don't think that any religion should be doing that.
Got it. You didn't read my entire post. I'll help you out:
If my shitty private elementary school existed now and I knew about those clubs by the time I was in fifth or sixth grade, I would have formed one because I wasn’t shy.
How would you have known about the Satanists when you were in fifth grade?
Fucking Christ. Did you not even read what I pasted from my original post?
I did read it. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that I'm illiterate or unintelligent.
You didn't disagree with me. Your question showed an ignorance of what I said.
Me: "If my shitty private elementary school existed now and I knew about those clubs by the time I was in fifth or sixth grade"
You: "How would you have known about the Satanists when you were in fifth grade?"
I literally said I didn't know about the clubs. I also wouldn't know about TST because they were founded in 2012 and, believe it or not, I'm not 12 years old.
So since you really need an answer to your silly question, I wouldn't have known about The Satanic Temple or the After School Satan Club when I was in fifth grade because I wasn't in fifth grade last year.
I'm saying that you wouldn't have known about the Satanists or any other religion unless an adult told you about it. I'm opposed to preaching to kids.
I'm also a parent (though my kids aren't yet at school age) and I'm frustrated with how public schools have become a battleground for the political gain of warring groups. A Satanist after school club is another example.
You mentioned that you went to private school. I also went to a Catholic private school until third grade so I understand your frustration with them.
I’m saying that you wouldn’t have known about the Satanists or any other religion unless an adult told you about it.
Have you heard of this thing called the Internet?
Yes. Please answer me this hypothetical. Why do we prohibit young kids from viewing porn?
The Satanists shouldn't be allowed to preach to kids just like the Jews and Muslims and Christians shouldn't be allowed to. The kids aren't mature enough to understand the issues at hand, just like they can't understand the repercussions of sex.
Sorry, you want to prohibit children from learning about Satanism on the internet?
How would you even go about doing such a thing?
Also, how do you stop someone from preaching to kids?
And I understood sex when my mother told me about it when I was five.
There are ways of protecting kids from the chaotic influence of the internet. Most states prohibit minors from viewing porn and they're developing more effective ways to enforce it. Similarly, some states are prohibiting kids from using Instagram until they're 13.
In New Zealand they've made it illegal to preach religion to kids. I don't know exactly the the method but I've seen firsthand that it's possible.
You're talking about prohibiting specific sites but you're proposing blocking specific Wikipedia pages. That's ludicrous.
In New Zealand they’ve made it illegal to preach religion to kids.
Not as far as I can tell from my Googling.
I lived there for seven years. I've seen and heard it directly.
Fine, show me the law.
I won't be able to find the exact ordinance and I don't really care enough to search for it. I've heard from reliable sources and I witnessed firsthand that missionaries in New Zealand are not allowed to talk to kids. There are lots of missionaries, especially Mormons, so the rule is widely known.
"Missionaries are not allowed to talk to kids" is not the same as "preaching to kids is illegal." And the fact that you won't even look it up and are doing the "trust me, bro" thing makes me doubt even that is true.
Because, again, I looked and found nothing.
Oh, I've figured out how to reply. I'm using Eternity for Lemmy and it has a few bugs.
I simply won't be able to find the exact ordinance. You can believe me or not. I won't lose sleep over it.
Are you in favor of religious organizations targeting children under the age of 16?
Who? Christians?
Yes. And Christians.
The Satanic Temple only goes to schools that have other relgious groups opening after school programs. They preach the belief to follow science and reason and find the best/most logical answers instead of listening to absurd unproven beliefs (such as dinosaurs not being real). They do NOT believe in Satan or preach that any such thing is good.
The name is a little tongue/cheek with the whole idea that some Christians would call any who don't act as sheep and act as part of the heard that follows the lord, their shepherd is satan or guided by satan in disguise.
Yeah, that's my point. Their whole organization is trolling and I don't think that they should use kids for publicity. Nor do I think that they should attempt to influence kids at all, just like every other religion.
How are they influenced, and they aren't used being used for publicity from what I can tell from the article. One of the first posts here does a pretty good summary of the article that it centers more around the outrage than actually the after-school program itself.
They're not. It's a dishonest argument.