this post was submitted on 05 May 2025
96 points (86.9% liked)

/0 Governance

206 readers
1 users here now

A community for discussion and democratic decision making in the Divisions by zero.

Anyone with voting rights can open a governance thread and initiate a vote or a discussion. There's no special keywords you must be aware of before you open a thread, but there are some. here's the governance thread manual.

Answers

founded 4 months ago
MODERATORS
 

Ahoy me hearties!

To run alongside the discussion on the simplified Golden Rules for the instance, I decided to post a separate proposal for a single rule addition.

The proposed rule is: Off topic comments and downvote trolling to protest the use of genAI images is not permitted in our communities.


Edit2: The community feedback has been strongly positive, thanks for all your feedback. Notably, quite a few folks would like it to be more generic, to cater for future scenarios as well. So taking that into account, and adding the rationale for the change, I came up with:

To protect our communities, community members and mods from abuse: no comment trolling, dogpiling, or downvote trolling is allowed.

I hope that works for most folks, and please feel free to leave more comments if you can suggest an improved wording. I do read them all.


It would only apply to communities where GenAI art is not disallowed by the community rules, so mods can opt in or out.

Since the rule will likely attract some pushback from the anti-GenAI crowd, I wanted to run this proposal as a member vote to confirm we have broad support.

Exhibit 1 - dbzer0 Main Sidebar for context

Be Weird, Download a Car, Generate Art, Screw Copyrights

Communities about Anarchism, Generative AI, Copylefts, Neurodivergence, Filesharing, and Free Software.

Our instance has been associated with genAI art since its inception, because the founding admin, db0, has also spent years developing and maintaining FOSS Projects like AI Horde (a crowdsourced distributed cluster of image generation workers and text generation workers) and Haidra.

We have a number of popular genAI communities on our instance including:

Exhibit 2 - The Problem

This is the recent experience of one of our community mods:

"From the moment I started the [redacted] community here people have been brigading it trying to suppress it, and had I not had the sense to ban the droves of anti-AI trolls who come to downvote it into oblivion. They probably would be continuing to do so in insanely large volume. A lot of the users who come to downvote do so with empty no content accounts, but a lot are also trolls from the [email protected] community. I’ve also received a fair amount of harassment including threats and bad faith accusations from it like people saying I’m a pedophile or saying I’m pretending to be nonbinary over the fact that I like and use genAI. Really awful behavior that has no place on this instance of this community."

This sort of thing is hateful and should not have to be tolerated by our users. Let's call it what it is: bullying and harassment.

Exhibit 3 - Escalating Problems

If you take look at this post from today in the lighthearted Lefty Memes community, it's a total shit show of offtopic comments. I'm not going to re-litigate the whole experience here since there is a YPTB post about it here.

This sort of brigading is completely unwarranted and I regard it as hostile bullying behaviour towards our community members and moderators. It completely derails the comments and goes way off topic for the community. Even after repeatedly asking these users to open a meta post about the issues they clearly wanted to talk about, instead of brigading the comments, I was mostly ignored and eventually pretty much gave up on trying to moderate the post.

Conclusion

In summary, as an admin on this instance I've noticed a significant uptick in the amount and volume of trolling in our communities by this group of users. I'd like to make sure we have this rule in place so that we can continue to effectively moderate the instance for the enjoyment of our community members, and to protect our moderators and admins from abuse.

Thank you for your consideration. If you have any suggestions to improve the rule, or thoughts on the topic you wish to share, then please do so in the comments.

Edit: for detailed voting information see this post. But in summary, please upvote if you support the rule addition or downvote if you are opposed.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Acknowledged governance topic opened by https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/u/flatworm7591 Early Bird: a parrot, orangered colors Jolly Roger: an icon of pirate jolly roger skull wearing a hat, in orange-red, black and white colors A book with a loaf of bread in the cover  in orange-red, black and white colors Deck Hand: An icon of anchor crossed with two staves in orange-red, black and white colors First Mate: a pirate ship's steering wheel, orangered color

This is a simple majority vote. The final tally is as follows:

  • For: MVP: a star icon, in orange-red, black and white colors (2), Powder Monkey: An icon of powder barrel in orange-red, black and white colors (1), First Mate: a pirate ship's steering wheel, orangered color (4), Vouched: a minimalist compass icon. Orangered color (7), Salty Dog: An icon of two crossed cutlasses with a skull in the center in orange-red, black and white colors (2), Threadiverse Enjoyer: An icon of a doubloon with a black hole in the center in orange-red, black and white colors (1), Deck Hand: An icon of anchor crossed with two staves in orange-red, black and white colors (2)
  • Against: Deck Hand: An icon of anchor crossed with two staves in orange-red, black and white colors
  • Local Community: +0.4
  • Outsider sentiment: Positive
  • Total: +18.4
  • Percentage: 95.00%

This vote has concluded on 2025-05-12 01:19:44 UTC


Reminder that this is a pilot process and results of voting are not set in stone.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Let me start by saying that I am in favour of the rule. Going into topics-centered community and voicing against that topic is kind of stupid, and everybody should be able to feel safe in their own spaces. All my concerns (generality of the rule, downvote trolling and automating moderation) were already voiced by others and addressed one by one. Also, as a practical suggestion, maybe we can have sticky posts in each community where the rule will be applied? Not forever, but for a set period of time.

I waited longer to give my answer, as I am very skeptical about AI in general but in favour of many other instance topics, and I wanted to form my own opinion on the topic at hand before commenting. I am really happy at the level of the discussion here and how the feedback was received by OP. I didn't agree with some comments on other posts leading to this one, but I am happy to see that the discussion was kept objective and on-point, so a huge thank to OP and everyone who participated for showing me how the instance governance and discussion works (I'm relatively new here).

In the end, while I don't go specifically go searching for AI content and barely see it in my feed, I am happy that stuff like AI-horde exist, and I really think it's a good way of doing things. And in general, the governance experiment here and the way this instance is managed is way more important for me than my own opinions on AI.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

We are still feeling out the governance experiment, but it's working out pretty good so far I think. I genuinely find the feedback helpful, and I'm sure we arrived at a better version of the rule because of the community feedback. So thanks for your input.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

I totally agree with you, thanks for suggesting this change.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

How are we defining downvote trolling? This is starting to sound like the rule changes at Reddit.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The word "trolling" is doing all the work in that phrase. Examples would be a user mass downvoting posts in a comm; someone downvoting every new post in a comm; or votes from vote manipulation accounts/bots. To be honest, it's not like we spend a lot of time looking at voting patterns unless a specific report is made by a mod or user about being targeted by such activity, and there is some clear evidence of a harassment/suppression campaign.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

Ah, that’s pretty fair then.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

yeah it’s pretty hard to vote for an undefined term.
if it’s people subscribing to a community for the sole purpose of downvoting everything, that would feel like downvote trolling… that or brigading….
if you’re just scrolling through All or something and see stuff you don’t like and downvote, that seems okay.
(personally i just block communities i completely hate and never worry about them again).

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I say yeah, it's the most sanity-inducing option to have both communities coexist.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I am for the rule change.

Gen AI is a great invention. That doesn't mean i cannot be critical of how it gets shoved into spaces where it doesn't belong, because a shitton of money get injected in it by venture capitalists in their neverending search for the next big thing.

But that's not what's happening here, where people are using (local) models to create images to enjoy and to be creative and not data centers wrongly answering inane questions.

The current models are snapshots of the current human culture, and should belong to all of us. i don't think it's fair to come here and behave like a drunk in a dive bar because they suddendly became friendly with rights holders (who have tried to fuck over single users downloading some shitty pop songs with life destroying lawsuits)

P.S.: I am a big piracy advocate, since i have been strapped for cash for my whole life and i would have been excluded from a lot of society and culture if it weren't for the pirate hat. I therefore understand that current models would have been prohibitively expensive to create when taking every single copyright claim into consideration. I also think that for future models there should be a mechanism to make sure that creators get their fair share and the possibility to opt out if they really do not want to be included.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

I heartily agree with your comment and it's points. Your phrasing and insight into the topic is a boon!

Seriously though, you nailed many of the thoughts I've had about this far better than my own attempts at turning them into language.

load more comments
view more: next ›