this post was submitted on 02 May 2025

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573

AI models routinely lie when honesty conflicts with their goals (www.theregister.com)

submitted 3 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 weeks ago

Exactly. They aren't lying, they are completing the objective. Like machines... Because that's what they are, they don't "talk" or "think". They do what you tell them to do.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

It’s not a lie if you believe it.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

word lying would imply intent. Is this pseudocode

print "sky is green" lying or doing what its coded to do?

The one who is lying is the company running the ai

[+] [email protected] -6 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

It's lying whether you do it knowingly or not.

The difference is whether it's intentional lying.
Lying is saying a falsehood, that can be both accidental or intentional.
The difference is in how bad we perceive it to be, but in this case, I don't really see a purpose of that, because an AI lying makes it a bad AI no matter why it lies.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Actually no, “to lie” means to say something intentionally false. One cannot “accidentally lie”

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lie

3 an inaccurate or untrue statement; falsehood: When I went to school, history books were full of lies, and I won't teach lies to kids.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lie

1 a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth.

Your example also doesn’t support your definition. It implies the history books were written inaccurately on purpose (As we know historically they are) and the teacher refuses to teach it because then they would be deceiving the children intentionally otherwise, which would of course be lying.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

ALL the examples apply.
So you can't disprove an example using another example.

What else will you call an unintentional lie?
It's a lie plain and simple, I refuse to bend over backwards to apologize for people who parrot the lies of other people, and call it "saying a falsehood." It's moronic and bad terminology.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

And none of them support your use of the word.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I just think lying is wrong word to use here. Outputting false information would be better. Its kind of nitpicky but not really since choice of words affects how people perceive things. In this matter it shifts the blame from the company to their product and also makes it seem more capable than it is since when you think about something lying, it would also mean that something is intelligent enough to lie.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Outputting false information

I understand what you mean, but technically that is lying, and I sort of disagree, because I think it's easier for people to be aware of AI lying than "Outputting false information".

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

Well, I guess its just a little thing and doesn't ultimately matter. But little things add up

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I think the disagreement here is semantics around the meaning of the word "lie". The word "lie" commonly has an element of intent behind it. An LLM can't be said to have intent. It isn't conscious and, therefor, cannot have intent. The developers may have intent and may have adjusted the LLM to output false information on certain topics, but the LLM isn't making any decision and has no intent.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 3 weeks ago

IMO parroting lies of others without critical thinking is also lies.

For instance if you print lies in an article, the article is lying. But not only the article, if the article is in a paper, the paper is also lying.
Even if the AI is merely a medium, then the medium is lying. No matter who made the lie originally.

Then we can debate afterwards the seriousness and who made up the lie, but the lie remains a lie no-matter what or who repeats it.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 3 weeks ago

These kinds of bullshit humanizing headlines are the part of the grift.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

They paint this as if it was a step back, as if it doesn't already copy human behaviour perfectly and isn't in line with technofascist goals. sad news for smartasses that thought they are getting a perfect magic 8ball. sike, get ready for fully automated trollfarms to be 99% of commercial web for the next decade(s).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

Maybe the darknet will grow in its place.

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