this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2025
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Programming

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About enshitification of web dev.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago

Very much true what the author writes, even if the title blames javascript but then in a subtitle he says javascript is not the villain and puts the blame on misuse.

IMHO that possibility of misuse is the reason why javascript needs to have stricter reins.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Now it takes four engineers, three frameworks, and a CI/CD pipeline just to change a heading. It’s inordinately complex to simply publish a webpage.

Huh? I mean I get that compiling a webpage that includes JS may appear more complex than uploading some unchanged HTML/CSS files, but I’d still argue you should use a build system because what you want to write and what is best delivered to browsers is usually 2 different things.

Said build systems easily make room for JS compilation in the same way you can compile SASS to CSS and say PUG or nunjucks to HTML. You’re serving 2 separate concerns if you at all care about BOTH optimisation and devx.

Serious old grump or out of the loop vibes in this article.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

I straddle the time between dumping html and CSS files over sftp and using a pipeline to deliver content.

the times a deployment failed over sftp vs cicd is like night and day.

you're always one bad npm package away from annihilation.

[–] [email protected] 66 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

An fuck off with these dumbass, utterly vacuous Anti JavaScript rants.

I'm getting so sick of people being like "I keep getting hurt by bullets, clearly it's the steel industry that's the problem".

Your issue isn't with JavaScript it's with advertising and data tracking and profit driven product managers and the things that force developers to focus on churning out bad UXs.

I can build an insanely fast and performant blog with Gatsby or Next.js and have the full power of React to build a modern pleasant components hierarchy and also have it be entirely statically rendered and load instantly.

And guess what, unlike the author apparently, I don't find it a mystery. I understand every aspect of the stack I'm using and why each part is doing what . And unlike the author's tech stack, I don't need a constantly running server just to render my client's application and provide basic interactivity on their $500 phone with a GPU more powerful than any that existed from 10 years ago.

This article literally says absolutely nothing substantive. It just rants about how websites are less performant and react is complicated and ignore the reality that if every data tracking script happened backend instead, there would still be performance issues because they are there for the sole reason that those websites do not care to pay to fix them. Full stop. They could fix those performance issues now, while still including JavaScript and data tracking, but they don't because they don't care and never would.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Thank you!

Almost everything the author complains about has nothing to do with JS. The author is complaining about corporate, SaaS, ad-driven web design. It just so happens that web browsers run JavaScript.

In an alternate universe, where web browsers were designed to use Python, all of these same problems would exist.

But no, it’s fun to bag on JS because it has some quirks (as if no other languages do…), so people will use the word in the title of their article as nerd clickbait. Honestly, it gets a little old after a while.

Personally, I think JS and TS are great. JS isn’t perfect, but I’ve written in 5 programming languages professionally, at this point, and I haven’t used one that is.

I write a lot of back end services and web servers in Node.js (and Express) and it’s a great experience.

So… yeah, the modern web kind of sucks. But it’s not really the fault of JS as a language.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago

Well, JS is horrible, but TS is really pleasant to work with.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago

Exactly, even if you had no front end language at all, and just requests to backend servers for static html and CSS content, those sites would still suck because they would ship the first shitty server that made them money out the door and not care that it got overloaded or was coded garbagely.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Around 2010, something shifted.

I have been ranting about Javascript breaking the web since probably close to a decade before that.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Clearly that's indicative of you two both being accurate in your assessments.

Totally couldn't be an old man yells at cloud situation with you two separated by close to a decade...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Totally couldn’t be an old man yells at cloud situation

It literally couldn't, because I was a teenager at the time.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 weeks ago

Old man yells at cloud isn't an age, it's a bitter mindset.

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