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For those who're currently looking for a nice new device: shown are (from Top Left to Right):
Not mentioned but also selling Ready-to-use Linux computer:
These are great for certain use cases, but there are areas where volume is critical for economy of scale and we have no equivalent.
Like with my disability and ergonomic needs I went looking for a laptop with an AI capable GPU. Also because building hardware is such a garbage marketing scam to navigate. I got a late- 16GB GPU model for $2k when all I could buy was a 12GB S76 for $3k5 or 16GB for $4k5+ and it had a 14k9 Intel with C4-roulette bomb built in.
We are at a stage where it is insane that gaming is even relevant to GPU specs. The die used in almost all of these GPUs are not only capable of handing a lot more RAM, but the support for more RAM is actually already in the firmware and only configured by soldering the correct chips and changing a configuration resistor on the PCB. Most chips are more than capable of addressing the maximum memory that was available in the series. There are people posting on YT demonstrating this swap on multiple Nvidia cards. So either we must be able to buy a GPU with replaceable memory or hardware should be sold with the option for maximum. Gamers have no use for this, but it is super important for AI stuff. Like I was looking at getting some old P40 Tesla GPUs just because they have 24GB of ram but it would take 8 of them to have as much compute as my current single 16GB GPU on a laptop! I would love to buy a similar machine with something like a 48GB GPU in a 3090 or 4090 like class and with Tesla hardware that cannot be used for gaming. That absolutely cannot be some super rich, I-made-up-a-price boutique retailer bullshit. The existing hardware already supports this where something like a 5070 and 5060 are more than capable of shipping with 32GB of RAM attached. It is not super niche or stupid expensive to use chips that are a few dollars more each when the bulk of the cost is the same and already being spent. Sure my Tesla GPU laptop dream is edgy, but shipping a 32GB 5060 at economy of scale ~$2k is not. Even Nvidia should start classing dice and putting out AI specific specs if the bad blocks in a die permit just killing the ray tracing junk but can still do tensor math. These kinds of things are in the near future of possibility, but I don't see anyone in the Linux space being particularly edgy and leading by offering something great. They are acting like boutique retail and charging premiums or offering mundane hardware for tried and true use cases.
Anyways, I wanted to support S76 but paying twice as much, and when they do not open source their bootloader, it was a solid no for me. Fortunately https://linux-hardware.org/ exists and shows the kernel log and what works and does not work for almost all hardware that exists. Do a scan of your stuff to help others too, especially if you use esoteric stuff, unusual distros, or find some workaround to get hardware working when it did not work before. We don't have very good economy of scale with edge case and enthusiast hardware, but this is a way around that.
I think what people mean when they say this is that they are looking for the same price point as the equivalent Windows device... I don't know all these companies but every time I looked for a Linux PC/laptop it was 25-30% more expensive than the equivalent Windows thing.
all of them are a joke in canada
edit: in case this rubs someone the wrong way its a joke to my wallet/my wallet is the joke
I think the issue is that this is the first I've heard of any of these companies besides dell and lenovo.
Are the companies that sell these reaching their customer base?
Framework as wellβeverything just works.
I recently discovered framework-tool, which is a mindblowing level of integration with Linux.
I got a client to buy me a System76 (Pangolin), never would have bought one otherwise. Everything is great about it, very powerful and as expected, except for the BT/WiFi module. It's kinda dogshit.
Besides that, IO is plentiful, it's a good size/weight, user upgradable/serviceable, has a hardware camera killswitch, and a built-in RJ45 to fix the WiFi issue. When I got mine, they were doing a special, and I also got a neat backpack with it for free!
except for the BT/WiFi module. Itβs kinda dogshit.
You can get external USB ones of those, which opens things up. Downside is that it's another thing to carry, and you gotta plug it in when you sit down. Upside is that it lets you put the antenna wherever you want (which doesn't matter much for Bluetooth, but can be nice for WiFi). Desktops these days with integrated BT/WiFi tend to have external antennas that you can place where you want, but laptops don't have that option outside of USB.
That being said, I've gotten several exotic USB WiFi adapters for which I needed to compile in support; support wasn't packaged and in the base kernel. So given the context of the "just works" standpoint, that could be a tripping spot.
Indeed, I got myself a mid-grade Netgear USB antenna. It works much better than on-board, but like you said it's an extra thing with a wire. Doesn't help with BT, but at least my mouse has an RF dongle for that.
It's just a bit of a bummer that the price is what it is and the BT/WiFi is one of the cheap components.
I mean, I have a Thinkpad and an HP Elitebook. So... what's the problem?
From other comments, I think that OP is after something where they don't have to install the OS on, from a "just works" standpoint.
I don't want an OEM-installed OS, since I very much don't want any OEM customization and the easiest way to ensure that it's not there is to install a vanilla copy of the OS myself, but some people do want an "unbox it, open the lid, OS is there" experience.
Some Thinkpads have had a Linux option, but I don't think that Elitebooks have shipped with a pre-installed Linux distro.
goes to look at HP's site
They don't seem to currently be shipping any models that do this, based on the "Operating System" election in the left-hand bar.
cries in southern hemisphere
System 76 ship to southern hemisphere
I eventually bought a kfocus laptop, but the shipping on both was horrendous. I think kfocus worked out ever so slightly cheaper for the laptop itself though.
Im with you there, half of the world where buying tech stuff sucks
As much as I like my Tuxedo, I probably would not have bought it if I had known that the ethernet card and some laptop essentials dont work without their drivers, which have not been upstreamed. Due to this, I can't use my distro of choice (Bluefin) OR run with secure boot and LUKS with tpm unlock even on regular Fedora
Do you know if that's still the case on their new systems?
I'm currently waiting for next gen GPUs to become available and have been leaning towards Tuxedo
I'm using an Infinitybook Pro 14 gen 9. It came out last year.
You will most likely need the "tuxedo-drivers" package, but whether you'll need an ethernet driver too depends on the hardware they choose.
At least they publish their drivers for both RPM and DEB systems, so that makes it a bit less painful.
Of course, none of this applies if you use their distro. There, everything is pre-installed and configured for their laptops
Came to evangelize about our lord and savior used thinkpads
I'm here to evangelize coreboot and Talos and Framework for those with more money than you and I
Talos... are you running kubernetes for your laptop you mad lad? Also, not aware that the coreboot is ready yet for any of the non-chromebook machines. (Edit: meant coreboot for Framework laptops)
Does Framework sell a laptop with Linux pre-installed or do they only have officially supported distros?
You can buy no OS. Or even no included drive. You'll save on having to pay the Windows license.
Ships with windows or blank disk (selectable). Ubuntu/mint/fedora are officially supported but you could install other distros like arch
Still not shipping with something.
I'd only wipe it anyway.
Me too, and have done it in the past on one laptop that I did get with Linux when there was no bring-your-own option, but I suppose that OP's got a point
there are people out there for whom installing the OS on a blank laptop is going to be intimidating.
If you've installed an OS a zillion times, this is all old hat. If you never have before, probably feels kind of scary.
For those people, having a preinstalled OS can be a significant value-add.
Just got a HP pavilion for free. On the other side of everything here. Fucking want to go postal on them. Bios so fucked up I can't get Linux to run with full disk encryption. Buggy, acpi errors. Support"not our problem it works with windows" ..
HP has been awful about that forever. I slapped Linux on one maybe 15 years ago and it was a nightmare
some years ago it really was extremely hard. at least now there's finally some solid shops.
Computers are fine yes, but I'm still waiting for a Linux phone with not-shit specs LMAO
Every 6 months I check to see if theyβve figured out VOLTE on PostmarketOS, or Sailfish (my dream OS tbh) on community ports. And then I cry and angrily tell people how Microsoft destroyed Meego until Iβm told to hush
The Software isn't fully there yet for mass adoption (Your mileage may vary, but the general expectations for a modern daily driver are pretty high), at least not for anyone but enthusiasts and developers. If there's something like a PinePhone 2 it will probably yet again designed to be relatively cheap despite low production volume, so as many potential developers as possible can afford one.
If it can handle my banking app (local credit union) and occasionally play YouTube I'm good tbh
A lot of financial apps require Play Protect and attestation. I had to fight for months to figure out how to spoof the integrity check so I could deposit some stupid checks.