this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2024
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[–] Oliofizodos@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

First of all, your system is broken. Second, what is a Palestinian American supposed to do? Biden is literally providing the ammunition to kill their families. Trump isn’t any better, but that doesn’t mean voting for another genocidal maniac is a viable option.

You asking Palestinian/Muslim Americans to simply look past that is a very self centered perspective. You say then people will be deported and thrown into camps. That’s what Palestinians were fleeing from in the first place. They fled before, they’ll do it again if they have to. They’re living in diaspora anyway. So do the millions of other Muslim Americans who are here because of Western geopolitics.

You on the other hand who try to bully them into voting for Biden because it serves your purpose, have nowhere to go. If you want progress for your country and you consider Biden only the lesser evil. Instead of bullying fellow Americans into serving your purpose, why don’t you focus on your common goal instead? Respect their opinion, support their cause.

Join their protests against Biden, pressurize him into stopping the genocide, pressurize the DNC into sending someone else as their presidential candidate.

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[–] sourcery@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If those votes are important to him then Biden should earn them by not being complicit in a genocide. Maybe Biden is a Trump supporter by continuing to do so? After all if not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump, Biden doing genocide is also him voting for Trump.

[–] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

All I'm hearing from your comment is we should all become single issue voters regardless of outcome. This is a bad take.

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[–] Octagon9561@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Americans have some serious Stockholm syndrome if they believe voting for any of these candidates makes a meaningful difference when they are both war mongering fascists. The status quo can not be changed by voting but by anti-government protests forcing the current system to collapse.

Besides Roe ended under Biden, not Trump. There have also been more deportations under Biden than under Trump so this vote Biden or else blackmail isn't even based on facts. It's like choosing between Himmler and Hitler.

[–] Nobsi@feddit.de -1 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Both sides bad mhhhhhkay?
Get the fuck outta here, One side wants to uphold democracy and the other wants to bea adictatorship cult. And most bad things happening under biden are the result of 4 years of trump.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Both sides are bad, yes. The fascists are far worse, of course, but it's naive to think the DNC are some brave Democracy Defenders, when their sole interest is to uphold the rights and protections of Capital. Most of the bad things happening under Biden are actually because of Capitalism reaching an ever-later stage, Trump certainly made it worse but Biden isn't making it better.

Should leftists vote for Biden to prevent Trump? 100%, abstaining from voting or voting third party is a spoiler vote in America and would result in fascists winning. Should liberals pretend that Leftists are the problem because leftists are understandably upset that they don't have anyone to actually vote for, while liberals and fascists get to gleefully vote for their preferred candidates? Absolutely not.

[–] Nobsi@feddit.de -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Show me a functioning non capitalist society that is on the same or better level than the US, Germany, Finland, Spain, France.... etc. i'll wait.
Stop being delusional.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What "level?" Development? Quality of Life? Wealth? Wealth drives development, and development drives quality of life. If I took Cuba, or even EZLN, and compared it with, say, Somalia, the non-Capitalist countries win on all 3 accounts. You can cherry pick if you want, but ultimately development is a process and takes time. Development is a stage, if Cuba became Capitalist today it wouldn't be as developed as the US overnight, that's silly.

Secondly, you're assuming I want to replicate a currently existing country. That's false. I want the US, Germany, Finland, Spain, and France, along with all other countries, to shift to collective ownership of the Means of Production. I don't want to randomly reset a country to 0 progress and build up straight to Socialism, that's absurd.

The very premise of your question is false, as you're relying on a snapshot in history and not actually analyzing the mechanics of collective ownership. It's an utter non-argument.

[–] Nobsi@feddit.de -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

LMAO youre a tankie. No wonder youre delusional.
Have fun in your dreams.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (11 children)

How exactly am I a tankie? The EZLN is a Libertarian Socialist collective, I explicitly mentioned it to provide multiple examples that only share the fact that they are leftist in structure. I'm in favor of Democratic ownership and operation of the Means of Production by and for the Workers, rather than having a bunch of petite dictators a la Capitalism.

Is the fact that you're a landlord what drives you to be so immediately reactionary to anyone proposing we share ownership collectively?

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[–] OscarRobin@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I feel like posts like these always fail to realize how fucked of a situation US 'democracy' is in where you must vote for one shitty candidate because the other is literally a fascist.

Like no actually some people have decided that the entire system is untenable - they no there's a lesser of two evils, but they refuse to partake of an illegitimate system.

[–] GhostTheToast@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, but to me that seems worst. If the fascist comes to power by a slim a majority, it's these 'honorable' citizens to blame. Voting is a simple act that holds tons of power. I'm not gonna say that one vote could change the tide, but the past two elections have been slim where key voters in certain states can certainly change the outcome of the election.

If you want to change the system, you don't fix it by throwing your hands up and say 'I don't want to play anymore'. You fix it by voting and pestering the fuck out of your representatives to change the laws.

[–] Numberone@startrek.website 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I don't think that's right. At least most of the blame should go onto the party that refuses to govern, rigs elections against anyone who isn't their chosen meat puppet, and whose leader is supporting literal genocide. You can throw some of that shame down on the little people, but you're really wasting your time if that's where you're punching.

Wanting to change the system? Just vote blue isn't how you do it (I don't know how to do it, but voting blue obviously hasn't worked). The incentives are so weak for the dems to change, that I really don't even know how you can justify that second paragraph as reasonable. Voting doesn't make change, paying lobbyists does.

My cope is that maybe some of these elites stop losing their jobs when they fail election after election and we get someone new in there. But then these are Democrats, they don't learn ANYTHING ever, so that's all it is. Cope.

[–] Fahoobamagoo_n@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nothing stops you from raising and talking about issues AND trying to use your vote to stop the fascist from getting into power. The "protest vote" is less effective than the discourse.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago

Yes.

It's important to point out, however, that liberals have been feeding leftists the lie that voting for democrats will result in moving to the left. It doesn't, it just furthers liberalism.

As such, Leftists need to touch grass and actually organize on the ground, via Unionization and activism, to meaningfully get change.

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