this post was submitted on 13 Apr 2025
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That is what I wonder. Don't know about you guys, but I feel like a European patriot, even though this maybe does not make sense to some.

Being a true European patriot means to me: caring about all of the freedoms we have, our social democracies, is to value the open pluralist societies we developed since WW2, wanting to protect what the reactionaries want to take away from us, stop those who want to lock us all up, back in the small closed-minded nation-states we all come from, which will ultimately lick the boots of either US or China/Russia.

They are well organized, but what is the organization, the movement that fights against this ongoing attack on our shared values and mode of existence?

The post-WW2 Europe is an oasis of bliss in a world which is on fire, and we are all under attack. How can we fight against this destruction from the inside as well as from the outside ?

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[โ€“] [email protected] -3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Being a patriot is quite dumb if I may say so. And even dumber if you are a patriot for a imperialist and neoliberal organisation that even compared to a so-called liberal "democracy" is undemocratic. Instead of calling yourself a patriot you should read a book. And then call yourself something based on that. And please explain to me what freedoms one has in the EU. Freedom to pay insanely high rents? Freedom to have to chose to heat or eat? Freedom to be exploited by ones employer? I could go on like this forever. I would also like to know where the aforementioned is social and where there is democracy in the EU. And last but not least I would like to know in how far the EU is open. To my knowledge everywhere in the EU the marginalized are still marginalized.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

By the way, nice username. I got some of these recently.

[โ€“] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago

A product so good that only a socialist state sold them.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Are you one of those "tankies" everyone is talking about here on Lemmy?

And how do you know whether I read "some books" or not? Could it maybe just be that I just don't accept their conclusions, question the suggested alternative or the way to get there?

Do you think that either you become enlightened by reading them, or you must be dumb or the enemy?

And maybe that does say more about you thank about me?

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Fight hunger, fight drug addiction, fight the destruction of the European values. This doesn't work. Those are not targets. If you want to destroy something then you have to pinpoint a target that can be destroyed. "Destruction of the European values" is not a target.

However, do you really want to destroy something or don't you rather want to build something?

It doesn't come with the thrill of fear, but uniting people to build something is more sustainable.

In any case, take a close look and check if the oasis is not already burning or even spreading fire all over the world.

If you choose construction, make sure that the values you are going to implement are consistent and operational. Progressive means nothing but promising everybody that the world will develop according to the progess they envision. That won't happen. There can only be one direction.

My personal opinion is that Pluralism makes it difficult to unite people. People follow their leaders. If the idea would be enough, this post would explode, there would be discussions until people agreed on what to do and then do it. In a pluralist society you have to convince all leaders, and they have to agree to get active at the same time.

So start with finding the leaders and let them convince their communities.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Good Points in general. But where did you read about me wanting to destroy something? The only thing I actively think we need to destroy is fascism and imbalance of power, which is slowly corrupting everything like mold.

Pluralistic democracy in that regard is a more abstract concept than a concrete agenda and it is hard to unite people for such an abstract value. This value should only be a proxy value for other concrete outcomes/values, ideally. But let's turn it around. Only because it's free and democratic does not guarantee it is effective and doing good. But without it, there will be no chance for good outcomes.

I agree with your general message, it probably would be better to have a cause "for" something good and not against something bad. Only sadly it seems that in practice people are easier to unite against something or out of fear of something.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

You have to destroy something when you 'fight against this destruction'. But you can't fight abstract things, not even Fascism or imbalance.

Yes, people are easier to unite against something. The famous outside attacker. But how to fight fascism if it promises to fulfill what people want? People have to see that democracy is better. Maybe fight corruption, so that democracy can be at its best?

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Long term? Education: a broadly based, liberal education that makes the shared values understood and appreciated by most people, on the basis of good evidence, morality and reason. Without this, if everyone is taught and believes different, conflicting ideas, then there are no shared values to defend. Many organizations are involved but most significant are families, schools, colleges, universities, religious organizations and the media.

Short term? Justice, law and order that balances personal and collective interests. Without this, people will live in fear and desperation with immediate survival concerns being a priority over getting or giving a good education or making any personal sacrifice for the benefit of society. Also, sufficient resources for everyone so that no one is living in desperation and insecurity. This requires, among other things, preventing extremes of inequality of wealth and power. Not the elimination of inequality, but limiting and moderating it so that tyranny and jealous desperation are avoided. Again there are many organizations involved but most significant are the legislatures, courts, police and military.

Transparency and oversight are required for all these organizations, to ensure they are doing what they should, and freedom of thought and communication so that their behaviour, virtues and faults can be discovered, communicated, discussed and controlled. Whistleblowers and protections for them, and the media.

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