Linux
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
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So, I saw that lot of you are agreeing that basically just a standard CPU is needed. The problem is that in some cases its not enough. Some years ago I bought a very small Lenovo Miix 320 (not a thinkpad) and it was not compactible with free software at all. The audio and webcam crashed all the time with any distro that I tried. For this reason I asked this question, I had the impression that in the last years it became more difficult to make a laptop work with free software but I cannot judge it just with this experience.
DELL Latitude laptops. They're designed for work, come with repair guides from DELL, and have upgradeability. The 5310 is one of the longest-lasting laptops for battery life you can get for $200-300 on ebay (over 8 hours battery video streaming, I've done this) that still has half decent specs (16-64GB RAM upgradeable, upgradeable m.2 wifi / bt adapter, NVMe SSD upgradeable, i5 10th gen)
Runs fine on Debian Stable
minisforum v3
My top pick for a Linux laptop would be the Dell XPS 13 9310. It's old I guess, from 2020. But the build quality and Linux support is excellent. You could get a used one from eBay for around 400USD.
Alternatively, maybe you could look for a used Thinkpad X1 Carbon. I've purchased several of those in the past and have had really good experiences with them. The hardware is great and the software support is excellent.
I would avoid Framework. I actually just switched back to the Dell XPS 13 9310 after a year of using the Framework. Linux support on the Framework is just not as good as some other laptops. The biggest con of Framework is the HiDPI display. You will never get the display to look good. You'll have to do a ton of tweaking and debugging—and you'll still have some apps that are blurry or have weirdly sized icons or text. See: https://lemmy.today/post/22761155/13770242
Lenovo Thinkpads are always a great choice. You can get N.O.S (new old stock) models at deep discounts directly from their website.
New thinkpads are trash unfortunately. Lenovo really cheaped out on their build quality. I've had to fix multiple lenovo laptops and one of their all-in-ones and the corners they cut made the repairs either impossible or extremely difficult.
One new ideapad had to go back to them twice with motherboard issues.
Replacing the keyboard is impossible, you need to replace the whole front panel of the case becuase the keyboard is plastic rivited in place.
The all-in-one started as a simple ram and storage upgrade, but in order to do that the whole back panel needs to come off. Its snapped on but the LCD panel itself doesn't have any subframe around it, so when opening the back panel theres a very high chance of you cracking the display.
Ideapads are trash. I only recommend Thinkpads because they are their business line. I especially like their X1 series. I also recommend buying their new old stock because you get a good deal and you can buy their excellent extended warranty service. Two years in my screen went dark. First they replaced the MB and when that didn't work, I got a brand new screen. No charge and I basically have a brand new system.
https://kfocus.org/spec/spec-ir16.html this is an absolute gem, built just for linux. It comes with KUbuntu preinstalled but can be wiped and replaced with any flavor of linux, and all of the hardware and laptop functionality is fully supported by linux.
Framework is way overhyped and even more overpriced. Its "upgradeability" is totally unrealistic at best, scam at worst. Sure you can pop in a new USB port or display output, but that's about it before you're replacing the entire guts to upgrade it and keeping just the worn out case and screen...? Gee sounds great... Repairability is a real point for framework though. Can you still not update the BIOS on linux? Its linux support is historically not great but may have improved
replacing the entire guts
That's not how it works at all though... What? The RAM and SSD are individually replaceable, and the screen, speaker system, and chassis all have individual upgrades that have been released with time too (for the 13, at least). The only "replacing the entire guts" you would do is if you replaced the mainboard for a CPU upgrade, and even then that's just the mainboard, not the RAM, SSD, etc., which is pretty on-par with, say, a desktop anyway as often a meaningful CPU upgrade will include switching to a newer platform and therefore a new motherboard.
Not saying the Framework has no issues at all whatsoever, but that's sure not one of them.
So... all the normal stuff that is normally upgradeable on a normal laptop is upgradeable for framework too? Good point...
The only "replacing the entire guts" you would do is if you replaced the mainboard for a CPU upgrade
That's exactly my point, yes. Again, the "upgradeability" of a framework laptop is unrealistic at best and a scam at worst. It's exactly as upgradeable as most laptops unless you're replacing the whole mainboard which is not very realistic. By that point there is likely enough wear and tear that it makes no sense to keep the case, keyboard, and screen... and with framework premium prices you aren't saving money on the SSD or RAM (which, no, you likely can't reuse on a CPU upgrade, most likely you'll be going DDR4->DDR5). I do give them credit for repairability, which is great, but "upgradeability" specifically is basically a marketing scam and will not make any sense for 99% of users.
I expected the downvotes on my comment because my opinion goes against the framework fanboys, but I hope my suggestion of KFocus IR16 is not discounted because of my opinions on framework. It is truly a great choice for linux compatibility
An almost exact question was asked here about 3 days ago, maybe begin there.
Almost any Windows machine with an Intel sticker on it will work so it really depends on your priorities:
- ethics - buy from a Linux specialist like Tuxedo to avoid paying Microsoft
- safety (no surprises) - buy whatever your big-box retailer is selling at your budget
- bang for buck - buy a Lenovo ThinkPad second-hand
I'm hearing good things about Framework, provided you get the hinge upgrade.
If you need something beefier, personally I'm using a Lenovo Legion 7 (2024 version... that white one, bought it a few months ago), and I'm loving it. Linux Mint worked out of the box, but I chose to replace the stock wifi driver with a better one.
What's the deal with the hinge upgrade?
I have no first hand experience, but I read about it here recently:
https://www.projectgus.com/2024/09/18-months-with-framework-laptop/
He has another post named "20 months...etc", where he has done something tweaks and upgrades, and it's all good.
Whats your use case?
Was somewhat recently considering a linux laptop myself and ended up deciding the steamdeck fit my needs well.
A dock + portable keyboard & mouse for when i need to do typing or w/e, and a fun handheld console for when i want fun.
That being said, depending on what your "older" laptop is, it might not actually be much stronger, or it might be wildly overpowered for what you need.
Open source hardware
This is the route I'll probably go when it's time for me to replace my laptop. The 14" Lemur Pro looks perfect for my use case (ultra portable) although the Pangolin looks more powerful.
If you're using Debian, do you really need to upgrade?
h/j
But seriously anything with an AMD CPU/GPU in it and an Intel wireless card is probably all you'll need to be mindful of, provided it fits in your budget.
Also, don't worry about touch-capable screens or HDR. The support for those is still a work in progress, and you'll likely have a bad time with them if you're using Debian.
The touch screen in my 2013 laptop has been working fine since... 2013, running only Debian and Debian-derivatives.
It depends what it is you expect out of it, from what I've understood from others. If you want touch to just be a replacement for a mouse, it will be fine. If you expect multitouch to work like most tablets or phones, you'll be disappointed.
Feel free to refute that with your own experiences. I'm only speaking from second hand.
Well, OP only specified that they'd been using Linux for about a decade; no mention of their laptops not being from the early 90s. :)
Used ThinkPad's are pretty common on Ebay.
They're what I use. Also with Debian.
"Recent" is a factor of how much you're willing to shell out.
$300.00USD will get you a good Debian compatible box. You may want to then replace the battery and/or add RAM. Those are both found inexpensively also.
I second used or new Thinkpads. They have good linux support. I use a p14s with arch (btw).
New thinkpads are trash unfortunately. Lenovo really cheaped out on their build quality. I've had to fix multiple lenovo laptops and one of their all-in-ones and the corners they cut made the repairs either impossible or extremely difficult.
One new ideapad had to go back to them twice with motherboard issues.
Replacing the keyboard is impossible, you need to replace the whole front panel of the case becuase the keyboard is plastic rivited in place.
The all-in-one started as a simple ram and storage upgrade, but in order to do that the whole back panel needs to come off. Its snapped on but the LCD panel itself doesn't have any subframe around it, so when opening the back panel theres a very high chance of you cracking the display.
Try Framework.
You'll get a laptop sized to your budget and you'll be able to grow with it, upgrade any part your budget will allow in the future.
Their linux support is excellent.
not to be a downer but you could very likely buy a higher performing laptop than even the top framework laptop for less money than even a minimal build
Yes but in the future when you need or want to upgrade again, it's a fairly trivial cost because you're reusing 90% of the parts. It's an investment.
Not to mention if there's any kind of mechanical issue in the future.
Yes, but that's not the point of framework
Framework is a great concept, a great idea for places technology could go, but even its newest offerings are janky. I’ve seen the reviews from people who want to love them. I too want to love them. The modular tech they’re built around is cool as hell but in terms of daily use laptop that moves with you day in day out, it just ain’t it, imho.
Ive run Linux on multiple think pads, a razer laptop, and an asus gaming laptop, and they all work fine. Buy the hardware that works for you, and put Linux on it. It’s that simple.
Love mine and daily drive it. Not janky, zero issues. Everything works on Linux. Not sure what you’re referring to.
Can you get more bang for your buck? Yes, to start. But let’s compare after a couple of upgrades on mine vs whole laptop replacements with other brands.
It's definitely not jank. Huge fan of mine as well as some other folks here. Fw13 with AMD.
I daily drive my framework 13 since the first batch, upgraded twice the mobo. I run it on arch Linux, 0 issue whatsoever even after a year bringing it on site like the Texan boonies or on boats in the middle of the golf of Mexico .. Compatibility wise with linux, 100% of the peripherals work, even the finger reader thing.