So Timothy was lying
Science Memes
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This is how biologists interpreted ghosting
This happened to me. No joke. I lost half a standard deviation from my iq for each child i had. #dunceLife
Are you sure it's not because of chronic exhaustion for several months in a row instead of the sex?
According to the article the females don't fare any better either.
I didn't know this about octopi, what's the point, evolutionarily, to self destruct after reproducing?
Essentially their entire mating cycle is what causes this. They've got a gland behind the eye that puts them into mating mode and once it starts it never turns off until they overdose on sex hormone.
Most cephalopods are voracious hunters that eat and eat to grow big and then once mating mode switches on they just focus on mating, which results in a shit ton of babies. Every step of that cycle has an extremely high mortality rate resulting in strong selection pressures for the best of every phase. When they do something, they go big.
There's a specific life history strategy called semelparity, which is what you're describing (breeding once then dying). To my understanding, this is incentivized if the chances of getting a second attempt to breed are too low, and so it becomes more evolutionarily advantageous to simply go all out on the first attempt
Thanks, one solid answer! It could be that it used to be an advantage at some point and now it's just perpetuated
I read that it's so the parents don't compete for resources with their young, helping to support the young's survival
Fair, another possibility, thanks for the answer
To prevent decrepit politicians who already had their chance from usurping the resources of the next generation and pulling up the ladder behind them?
You know... Octopus politicians
Reproduction is the goal. It could be as simple as giving the young a chance to out compete their r****ded parents for limited food.
Evolution doesn't care what happens to you after reproduction because you've already passed on your genes at that point
I mean, yes, but if you're not a vegetable afterwards, you will have more chances to reproduce. Therefore passing on your genes more
Evolution doesn't make deliberate, strategic choices. Random mutations result in new behaviors/properties that may or may not be beneficial, and selection removes those mutations that prevent reproduction from the gene pool. Not every mutation will be beneficial, but as long as it's not harmful enough to stop reproduction, it can persist.
If there were two groups of octopuses, one with the self-destructive behavior and one without, then there would be pressure from competition. In that situation, your point would have more of an impact. But without that pressure, there's nothing to drive the selection. And the mutation won't occur just because it would be helpful for it to do so - it's random.
At least, that's how I understand it. I'm not a biologist or anything.
yes, that's the point I'm trying to reinforce. There has to be "a reason" that getting stupider after mating is a succesful trait, otherwise it wouldn't be there.
The question that was asked was: what is the reason? So far I've only seen speculation in this thread
There doesn't have to be reason for it to help, all that matters is that there isnt a sufficient enough of am evolutionary hinderance to prevent reproduction. The octopi reproduced, so their traits pass on.
Thank you, so far you're the only one addressing my question. The answer could very well be that it's a spandrel, but just like you said it would be speculation like anything else- nobody here daring to say "nobody in the scientific community has a solid theory, we don't know for sure"
As was said before: The genes are already passed onto the next generation. It doesn't matter if the parents become stupid now. There's no evolutionary advantage to become more or less stupid at this point.
It became like it is now by some random chance(s).
SkaveRat is addressing my original question: I'm asking if there is an advantageous reason for this phenomenon. You seem to suggest it's a spandrel at best, and fair enough, that could be the answer. It probably is a spandrel, I also believe that.
However spandrels usually don't reduce future chances or reproduction, and this one clearly does, so I was asking perhaps there is an advantage to this feature (not a spandrel then). Or at least an explanation for its existence from a genetic perspective, ie. the genes triggering the self destructing behavior are also the same ones responsible for a major survivability feature.
The reason behind spandrels existing can sometimes be explained other than "random", as it happens with the human chin for example - apparently someone figured out it's physically impossible for a chin not to appear if you are deforming maxillary bones to flatten into a face.
So far here nobody knows for sure about the octopus, and I gather it's because science doesn't yet have a consensus on the matter. But everyone has been quick to assure me it's just random and that there isn't anything else to it without any scientific backing.
that's not how it works.
It is more advantageous to have more than 1 shot at spreading your genes than having only a single one.
Yes, your genes will be spread with just reproducing once, but they will be even more spread if you have a long and productive live with even more offspring
The YT channel primer actually made a video about rougjly this topic recently
yeah but octopi are intensely successful hunters. this may be either a mechanism that helps prevent resource scarcity, or it could prevent parent/offspring mating
They also lay tens of thousands of eggs at once.
what's the point, evolutionarily, to self destruct after reproducing?
There is no point, evolution is about successful reproduction and everything else is just random chance.
If a evolutionary tweak happens that gives your off spring better chances, but your arms fall off after sex then it'll probably perpetuate.
everything else is just random chance.
nope, then you'd see some of same species showing the behaviour, others not.
Unless your species is a K Strategist where taking care of your offspring/group is essential.
But that's just moving the goalpost, so to speak. You've just built a different parenting framework that requires you to stick around. You're still hunting the same goal: self sufficient offspring
(Not negging you)
True, I'm just being pedantic and pointing out that "reproduce and that's it" isn't the case for some species.
Some species carry it on to "reproduce and ensure your offspring reproduces too."
Just goon forever
Gooners win again
whatever works...
What?
Octopuses didn't get post nut clarity.
or maybe they do and it's unfathomable to the rest of us
Octopus nuts and it realizes it's mere empty space perceiving itself.
Eldritch knowledge beyond our understanding
Cthulhu was just a normal octupus that just kept on jacking off, reaching untold and forgotten knowledge, dooming this universe with his eldridge gooning