this post was submitted on 31 Jan 2025
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Article: https://proton.me/blog/deepseek

Calls it "Deepsneak", failing to make it clear that the reason people love Deepseek is that you can download and it run it securely on any of your own private devices or servers - unlike most of the competing SOTA AIs.

I can't speak for Proton, but the last couple weeks are showing some very clear biases coming out.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 months ago (7 children)

Since ditching Proton for Tuta and Mailbox...I haven't missed anything and I'm saving money.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

People got flack for saying Proton is the CIA, Proton is NSA, Proton is a joint five-eyes country intelligence operation despite the convenient timing of their formation and lots of other things.

Maybe they're not, maybe their CEO is just acting this way.

But consider for a moment if they were. IF they were then all of this would make more sense. The CIA/NSA/etc have a vested interest in discrediting and attacking Chinese technology they have no ability to spy or gather data through. The CIA/NSA could also for example see a point to throwing in publicly with Trump as part of a larger agreed upon push with the tech companies towards reactionary politics, towards what many call fascism or fascism-ish.

My mind is not made up. It's kind of unknowable. I think they're suspicious enough to be wary of trusting them but there's no smoking gun, yet there wasn't a smoking gun that CryptoAG was a CIA cut-out until some unauthorized leaks nearly a half century after they gained control and use of it. We know they have an interest in subverting encryption, in going fishing among "interesting" targets who might seek to use privacy-conscious services and among dissidents outside the west they may wish to vet and recruit.

True privacy advocates should not be throwing in with the agenda of any regime or bloc, especially those who so trample human and privacy rights as that of the US and co. They should be roundly suspicious of all power.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago

In other words, honeypot. And an US plant in Switzerland...

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 months ago (2 children)

How is this Open Source? The official repository https://github.com/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-R1 contains images only, a PDF file, and links to download the model. I don't see any code. What exactly is Open Source here? And if so, where to get the source code?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 months ago

Open-Source in AI usually posted to HuggingFace instead of GitHub: https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-R1

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 months ago (2 children)

In deep learning generally open source doesn't include actual training or inference code. Rather it means they publish the model weights and parameters (necessary to run it locally/on your own hardware) and publish academic papers explaining how the model was trained. I'm sure Stallman disagrees but from the standpoint of deep learning research DeepSeek definitely qualifies as an "open source model"

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So "Open Source" to AI is just releasing a .psd file used to export a jpeg, and you need some other proprietary software like Photoshop in order to use it.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

What other proprietary software is necessary to use model weights?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Just because they call it Open Source does not make it. DeepSeek is not Open Source, it only provides model weights and parameters, not any source code and training data. I still don't know whats in the model and we only get "binary" data, not any source code. This is not Libre software.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago

There is a nice (even if by now already a bit outdated) analysis about the openness of different "open source" generative AI projects in the following article: Liesenfeld, Andreas, and Mark Dingemanse. "Rethinking open source generative AI: open washing and the EU AI Act." The 2024 ACM Conference on Fairness, Accountability, and Transparency. 2024.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 3 months ago (3 children)

OpenAI, Google, and Meta, for example, can push back against most excessive government demands.

Sure they "can" but do they?

[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 months ago

“Pushing back against the government” doesn’t even make sense. These people are oligarchs. They largely are the government. Who attended Trump’s inauguration? Who hosted Trump’s inauguration party? These US tech oligarchs.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Why do that when you can just score a deal with the government to give them whatever information they want for sweet perks like foreign competitors getting banned?

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[–] [email protected] 75 points 3 months ago (2 children)

How apt, just yesterday I put together an evidenced summary of the CEOs recent absurd comments. Why are Proton so keen to throw away so much good will people had invested in them?!


This is what the CEO posting as u/Proton_Team stated in a response on r/ProtonMail:

Here is our official response, also available on the Mastodon post in the screenshot:

Corporate capture of Dems is real. In 2022, we campaigned extensively in the US for anti-trust legislation.

Two bills were ready, with bipartisan support. Chuck Schumer (who coincidently has two daughters working as big tech lobbyists) refused to bring the bills for a vote.

At a 2024 event covering antitrust remedies, out of all the invited senators, just a single one showed up - JD Vance.

By working on the front lines of many policy issues, we have seen the shift between Dems and Republicans over the past decade first hand.

Dems had a choice between the progressive wing (Bernie Sanders, etc), versus corporate Dems, but in the end money won and constituents lost.

Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.

Source: https://archive.ph/quYyb

To call out the important bits:

  1. He refers to it as the "official response"
  2. Indicates that JD Vance is on their side just because he attended an event that other invited senators didn't
  3. Rattles on about "corporate Dems" with incredible bias
  4. States "Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses" which is immediately refuted by every response

That was posted in ther/ProtonMail sub where the majority of the event took place: https://old.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i1zjgn/so_that_happened/m7ahrlm/

However be aware that the CEO posting as u/Proton_Team kept editing his comments so I wouldn't trust the current state of it. Plus the proton team/subreddit mods deleted a ton of discussion they didn't like. Therefore this archive link captured the day after might show more but not all: https://web.archive.org/web/20250116060727/https://old.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i1zjgn/so_that_happened/m7ahrlm/

Some statements were made on Mastodon but these are subsequently deleted, but they're capture by an archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20250115165213/https://mastodon.social/@protonprivacy/113833073219145503

I learned about it from an r/privacy thread but true to their reputation the mods there also went on a deletion spree and removed the entire post: https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1i210jg/protonmail_supporting_the_party_that_killed/

This archive link might show more but I've not checked: https://web.archive.org/web/20250115193443/https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1i210jg/protonmail_supporting_the_party_that_killed/

There's also this lemmy discussion from the day after but by that point the Proton team had fully kicked in their censorship so I don't know how much people were aware of (apologies I don't know how to make a generic lemmy link) https://feddit.uk/post/22741653

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.

What a fucking dumbass. Yes, dems suck. But at least Lina Khan was head of the FTC and starting to change how antitrust laws are enforced. Did he delete this post after Trump was inaugurated with 3 of the richest tech billionaires?

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