this post was submitted on 14 Jan 2025
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Lefty Memes

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (16 children)

What if trains weren't slow? πŸ€”

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[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 day ago (10 children)

something a lot of people miss is, that some people have to shop for more than 3 or 4 people, when I grew up we were 5 plus a somewhat big dog, you can't really do weekly shopping without some kind of help under these circumstances

I use public transport to get everywhere I can, which is pretty easy where I live, but having 4 full shopping bags on a tram sounds like a horrible experience

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago (2 children)

It tends to be much easier in walkable/well designed areas because you have a much higher density of grocery stores.

I have about 8 within a 2-10 minute walk. So I don't really do a big weekly shop, but rather a couple small ones throughout the week.

So yeah, depends hugely on how human-friendly the area is

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

human-friendly as in you can live there in poverty or human-friendly as in it's great if you're middle class?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Look at Mr Fancypants, with enough money to live in a desirable area and have enough time to go for strolls to the grocery store(s).

Seriously though, this is not the norm in the states.

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[–] [email protected] 65 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Greg is gonna shit on the floor when he'll learn that happens everywhere in Europe.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yeah there's this thing called LIGHT RAIL, but even heavy rail, the NYC subway and BART are actually both heavy rail transit systems that one could absolutely casually take to the grocery store.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago

Their real issue is they think they have to travel 20+KM to the closest Walmart every time they want to buy something.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I get her point but trams!!!

I think she should see a city with trams and see how useful it is when implemented properly :)))

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[–] [email protected] 84 points 1 day ago (3 children)

The best is when the grocery stores are so close that you don't need a car or a train. Japan does it right. You can always walk to at least one grocery store.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

True enough for urban areas.

There's also a lot of more rural areas in Japan where the only thing in walking distance from a house is a bus stop, and it might be a bit of a long walk.

I'm sure there are more remote places, but I haven't been to those places.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I think the important part is that the Japan residents know it is possible once the town or city grows vs here in North America where people cannot fanthom the idea of not having a car (or in the US and Canada 1 car per person on the home).

I am privileged since I have been able to work from home recently, but it is so clear that you don’t need a car if non-work things were closer (better zoning and design roads for people instead of cars). Once you put 1k miles per year on your car instead of 10-20k and your quality of life is much higher due to no stress from having to commute it starts to radicalize you against into the dumb shit we do in the name of growth and profit (not violently but still makes you feel cheated out of a better life).

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Only if you live in a city

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My parents, who live in a town, can just walk to buy their groceries instead.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Good for them, but I know a dozen towns that are big enough you can't, or the only store wouldn't be in realistic walking distance for at least half the residents.

And even those that can, you have to either be in good health. So it isn't like your parents (or anyone's) will always be able to walk to the grocery.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

There is no such thing as a town that's too legitimately big for walking but too small for transit. Any example you think you can give is actually an example of fucked-up priorities and incompetent planning.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You are right, I just wanted to point out, that trains aren't the only possible option. For people who can't walk, there might be bicycles and mobility scooters instead, which also do not take up too much space.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago (4 children)

You do realize that if you can't walk, you aren't very likely to be riding a bike either.

Nor are either a very viable grocery conveyance.

Even assuming a big backpack, and a large basket on the scooter or bike, you can't do much shopping. So you're now expecting people with mobility issues to go more often, spend more time tramping around a store, with their already limited stamina and resources.

That's not even mentioning that a mobility scooter has limited range, and requires maintenance that anyone needing one is unlikely to be able to do themselves. Which means another trip somewhere to get that done.

Look, not everyone thinks about this stuff until they have no choice in the matter. But not only did I take care of the elderly, dying, and disabled for a living for twenty years, I stopped doing that because I'm disabled now too. And us cripples have communication.

I'm straight up telling you that anyone unable to walk to a store is not going to be able to make do with bikes and scooters. It just ain't happening on any kind of regular basis unless you live somewhere that the stores are under a five minute walk, and even then that's going to be a horrible time any foul weather days.

When you're having mobility issues serious enough to need a scooter or chair, you aren't in a situation where haring off to a grocery store every few days is sustainable. It just isn't.

There's this thing called the spoon analogy. It's a disability thing you run into.

Every day, we wake up with some spoons. Everything we do costs spoons.

The typical healthy person starts out with the usual number of spoons. You start with 20. Getting your shower costs a spoon. Walking to work costs a spoon. Shopping costs a spoon. Cooking costs a spoon. You get the idea, I assume.

Well, us cripples start the day with 15, or even less. Getting the shower costs two. Shopping costs two. Cooking costs three. Again, I'm confident you get the idea.

That's the thing that nobody ever considers. Once you reach a point where you would have access to a mobility scooter or chair, you're spending spoons left and right. You can't just stop by the store on the way down the block from the bus that dropped you off after work. Every task costs. So you have to do your shopping in big batches. You're also going to be fixed income most of the time, so shopping in bulk is pretty much the way you have to shop to be able to keep a realistic budget.

Now, there's ways to fix all of that. But it ain't something you fix by public transport. Doesn't matter if there's a bus or light rail when just waiting for the damn things is a spoon from your supply. Then the ride is slower, so that's another.

The way to fix that that's the most kind is to subsidize shopping delivery the way you'd set up parcel post. Or set up shared transport that ferries the disabled directly to and from places in a realistic, bearable time frame. You could maybe hybridize that.

It's all fine and good to improve the clusterfuck that is transportation and infrastructure. Gods, please, we need it bad. But we can't pretend that trains and buses are going to magically fix it all, or that the same fixes that will work in a city will work everywhere else, or vice versa.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

Bus and train will reduces the dependence on cars by a big margin and allow people that really need a car to move around to not be stuck in traffic.

The goal is to remove the most car possible on the road. I live in an area where everything is walkable and going downtown is well served by light rails, and I still have a car for when I need it (kids, big items), but otherwise I use walking/light rail.

But you are right that it won't fix everything. Suburbs as they are today shouldn't exist. They cost a lot to maintain versus the density of people and create a big dependance on cars.

So if we have medium/high density cities with rural towns and no suburbs, then the rural people can take their car because they need it, and people living in the city can walk and take the transit. But it will overall greatly reduce the number of cars on the road, which is a lot better than keep doing what we do right now.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago

Nobody wants to ban people from taking a car if they reasonably need it to get around. Or even just want to use it.

But if alternatives are actively pursued, it'll end up better for everyone. Bikes, pedestrians and public transport cause way less traffic per person per mile. And usually cheaper (in terms is tax dollars spent), too.

And shorter distances between homes and stores will also reduce the length of the car trips.

It's incredulous to me that people will still frame this issue as "car drivers will lose".

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 2 days ago

Yes, it's called a tram. It's how I get to the shops, city centre, etc.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 2 days ago (4 children)

If you have to take a train to the grocery, that's a failure in local planning and a business opportunity. That said, not every store has everything and I, too, have taken a train to the grocery store for fancier/rarer things.

In some parts of rural Japan, we also have a grocery truck carrying staples and things you requested the last time they came from the actual store. This is a huge lifeline to some rural elderly people, but I don't see why it couldn't be more broadly applied in other areas.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

If the frequency is good enough, this isn't a problem.

The best case scenario is as you mentionned : a grocery that you can walk easily, that has everything you need.

But having a light rail with high frequency makes it so that you can reach more area easily. And it also means that less dense part of the city still be serviced decently.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

I had two grocery stores in 5 minute walking distance. I had one store with more stuff, think also basic electronics, kitchenware, home appliances etc, in one station with the inner city train that was a 5 minute walk from my flat.

For years i did my groceries taking the train and i fail to see the problem. Just having to walk to the parking lot, get my car, drive to the store i can reach by train, then park there would have taken me twice as long even without traffic.

In inner cities cars are a liability for everyone including their driver.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

We just have food delivery. You order and it arrives the next day, no delivery fee. Of course the sales usually aren't as good as in typical stores but the general prices are almost identical. They deliver in cute little electric vehicles.

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[–] [email protected] 58 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Trains also work to get other traffic off the road too. It solves congestion for everybody, not just you. That way when you do have to drive a car, there are fewer of them on the road.

[–] [email protected] 97 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

1: I've taken the metro to get groceries loads of times

2: Trams

[–] [email protected] 42 points 2 days ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 122 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Yeah right, let me just walk to the supermarket XD

is back in 25 minutes with bag of grocceries

:o

[–] [email protected] 71 points 2 days ago (3 children)

"I don't want to carry bags all that way!"

Here. Take a backpack.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Shopping trolleys have grown in popularity in Sweden in recent years, sort of like a rolling suitcase but with more space, specifically made for grocery shopping.

Personally, I use a pannier basket on my bike though. Best way to shop for sure

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

I love shopping trolleys... But avoid the ones with multiple wheels for climbing stairs, they're loud as hell on pavement.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 days ago

no im obese and entirely brainwashed that walking is detriemntal to my health or smth idfk

societal constraints hold back the minds of those who are lazy to change

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[–] [email protected] 132 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Many cities at one time had trolley service which did local point to point connection. Then they were forced out because there was more profit in growing car dependency.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Capitalist government when public transport (a public service) is not making profits

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago

Seems more like politicians were ~~bribed~~ lobbied to cut funding by car makers than they were counting coins and said we'd get more (as a government) if everyone just drove from home.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Instant Teleportation when?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

If we ever figure out teleportation, it will be expensive. Of course, there's a free tier where you get teleported into a void where you will have to watch ads for 20 minutes before you get sent to your destination. Complete with regular reminders that you can simply upgrade your plan to get out of teleportation purgatory immediately.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (3 children)

You likely wouldn't actually want that, as the way it works on star trek at least is to effectively kill you (by recording all your molecules etc then ripping you apart), move your molecules to the new place and then reassemble you.

There's no real way to do 'instant' teleportation like you suggest either as it most likely breaks the laws of physics, things have to move to get places, best you could probably do is very fast teleportation.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'd settle for speed of light tbh

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Yeah, though this is difficult for anything with a significant mount of mass beyond that of a photon. The closest scientists and engineers etc have currently got to anything close to the possibility of going very very very fast is the Alcubierre drive. However, that's still very speculative and probably nowhere close to being built.

The most impressive tech ioo that they can come up with for space travel and exists at the moment is Ion thrusters.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Yeah so I guess I'd always imagined that the closest you can really get given the laws of physics to instant travel would be disintegration+information transfer+matter synthesis. But matter synthesis is probably ruled out by the amount of energy required to do anything, and the complexity of correct assembly. Still, fun to think about.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

walking is an option

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