On May 5th, 1818, Karl Marx, hero of the international proletatiat, was born. His revolution of Socialist theory reverberates throughout the world carries on to this day, in increasing magnitude. Every passing day, he is vindicated. His analysis of Capitalism, development of the theory of Scientific Socialism, and advancements on dialectics to become Dialectical Materialism, have all played a key role in the past century, and have remained ever-more relevant throughout.
He didn't always rock his famous beard, when he was younger he was clean shaven!
Some significant works:
Economic & Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844
The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte
Critique of the Gotha Programme
Manifesto of the Communist Party (along with Engels)
And, of course, Capital Vol I-III
Interested in Marxism-Leninism, but don't know where to start? Check out my "Read Theory, Darn it!" introductory reading list!
Tribal production did not come from large industry as created by Capitalism, did not rapidly increase the productive forces but largely stagnated until the discovery of agriculture and thus the beginnings of class society, and labor is the means of want in tribal society, not life's prime want.
There are similarities between the two, but ultimately both form entirely different structures and modes of production, hence why Marx spent his whole life advocating for advancing to Communism as a highly industrialized and global society, and against those who want to turn that clock back.
Drag thinks you forgot that drag isn't an anprim again. Otherwise the last paragraph is pretty random to include.
drag is arguing that tribal society and Star Trek are the same formation of society, which is wrong. I'm well aware that drag don't consider drag an AnPrim, that's not the point of the last paragraph, the point was to show that Marx considered tribal society to be entirely distinct from Communism. Hence, when Marx describes Communism, we find immediate discrepancies with how tribal society is formed and run.
Well it wouldn't make any sense for him to advocate for a return to primitive technology, because he wasn't a primitivist. He advocated for the kind of communism he could see in Europe's future. He was a European historian interested in predicting and making European history.
Your arguments are weird. You're citing the fact that Marx talked to Europeans within a European framework as evidence he didn't respect indigenous societies as communists. That doesn't make any sense. Of course he did that, it doesn't mean he thought the people he called communists weren't communists. It just means he had an area of specialisation. Drag has specialties too; drag doesn't know the first thing about Jewish communism, so drag doesn't talk about Kibbutz-es. That doesn't mean drag doesn't respect Jewish communism. Marx is the same way. Everyone is the same way about whatever part of their field they've specialised in.
Marx didn't disrespect tribal societies by calling them "primitive communism," it was a way to denote how the classless, stateless, moneyless society in tribes inevitably moves towards class society with the advent of agriculture, and it's only through Communism as he described that class, the state, and money can be permanently ended. Marx was an internationalist, he saw Communism as a global system that would eradicate borders, not erect hard borders around Europe.
And, for what it's worth, you should disrespect modern Kibbutz, they all depend on settler-colonialism and the genocide of Palestinians.
Drag didn't accuse Marx of disrespecting indigenous communism, drag's argument is based on the fact Marx didn't. How many times did you read drag's comment? Try rereading it one more time than that.
drag's point requires Marx to have been exclusively talking about Europe, when he was an internationalist concerned with global Communism. drag can continue to launch personal insults to avoid engaging with the points made, and it won't make drag any more correct for doing so.
Being an internationalist doesn't mean you don't write to an audience. Marx was a very European man with European subconscious biases, and the readers who provided the most feedback on his ideas were Europeans. Writing to an audience is inevitable in the process of creating a work. Ideology doesn't change the practical truths of the work. As a materialist, you should understand that.
Sure, that doesn't mean he considered tribal societies to have the same economic formation as post-Socialist, post-Capitalist Communism. In being an internationalist, he believed Communism to be a global system, not isolated in small, relatively disconnected tribes.
https://www.odysseytraveller.com/articles/ancient-aboriginal-trade-routes-of-australia/
They weren't as different from you as you think.
Relatively disconnected, as in the aboriginal people were not coordinating with people in Eurasia, Africa, and the Americas, in order to figure out the best production methods to suit everyone's needs. I of course knew that there were and are relatively complex methods of logistics in tribal societies, but these are in no way comparable to the ability for someone in Korea to communicate near instantly with someone in Alabama.
Well that requires the internet, and Aboriginal Australians didn't have the internet before colonisation. Having the internet wouldn't have changed much in terms of the economic ideology. It would be the same communism, just with internet. They would have shared songs by email as well as at ceremonial grounds.
Also, don't put Alabama on the same level as Korea. Put the USA on the same level as Korea, or put Alabama on the same level as Gyeonggi. Lemmy has enough US-centrism.
Tribal societies could not develop the infrastructure for internet even if they knew how to do so, without first developing agriculture to allow for specialization, then working up through technology to be able to create computers. Tribal societies could not develop the internet without developing class society, in other words.
I don't put Alabama "on the same level" as Korea. Alabama and Korea are geographically similar sizes, and over 11,000 kilometers away, hence the usage. Again, drag repeats the tactic of deliberately trying to find bad-faith readings and personal insults for me, rather than tackling the argument.
You're confusing insults and advice. Drag is telling you how to be a better communist. You're interpreting that as an attack because you see online discussions as being about performing correctness, instead of as a dialectical process where both parties benefit. You should read some Hegel.
Drag is talking about a hypothetical where white people don't suck, don't invade Australia, and trade advanced technology like computers and looms with independent and sovereign indigenous nations. Drag believes they would industrialise without major economic changes. It would be the same communism before and after.
Accusing me of US centrism, being a poor communist, etc is insulting clothed in the form of "advice." I have read Hegel, actually, and am familiar with the dialectical process, the problem is that that's not applicable here. drag has dodged arguments and moved goalposts the entire time on false premises of tribal hunter/getherer societies being the same as heavily industrialized post-Socialist societies, and has regularly picked the worst-faith interpretation of my points. This isn't beneficial for both parties, I benefit nothing except in showing onlookers my point, and drag is insistent on not actually engaging with the points I make.
If an outside society traded computers for pelts, pottery, art, or other goods producable in tribal societies, they still would not have access to power grids, nor the free time to specialize and utilize them at scale. They would need agriculture for that, and would develop a form of class society. Even if an industrial society gave this tribe everything it needed to be industrialized, it would have to rely on global systems of logistics and trade for replacement parts like semiconductors. This would necessitate the transformation into some degree of class society.
Tribes are relatively small in number, in order to accomodate industry, they would need a population boom, or rely heavily on imports and become essentially part of the global Capitalist system anyways.
Why did this person put so much time & effort into being wrong and convincing no one?
Fairly certain drag is a troll, honestly. drag has done similarly clearly wrong trains of thought and validates "soulists."