Please start your comments with the following question answered at the top:
"Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?" [Y/N]
this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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Lol fuck you and this whole position. "The other guy is worse" will not get you the votes you want. That was pretty much the entire party position in 2016 and we saw what happened. Worried about losing votes because of bidens deplorable enabling of Israel? Then get another fucking candidate who hasn't been supporting war crimes for the last year.
Based
Do you want the better guy or the worse guy? Seriously, it's an easy choice, and at least for me, it's not the worse guy. He's worse. Why would you want the worse guy?
It's even simpler than that, they're being selfish. They want to be able to pat themselves on the back for being Ultra Pure™ by not voting for anyone. They're Above It All™
Man, some wild assumptions here. Who said I don't intend to vote? I just don't think Biden is the horse the party should keep backing. It's insane to me that he's going for another term, and that the party isn't demanding other candidates to be on the ballot. The Democratic party has turned into the old conservatives now that extremism has overtaken the Republicans, and it fucking sucks that there isn't a third choice. We shouldn't be rolling over and accepting that because "that's just how the system is". We shouldn't be pretending Biden is the best we can do.
I shouldn't have assumed your specific position, but in general that language comes from someone who behaves as I mentioned. We don't have a choice right now, we don't have that luxury. I do agree that we should have an option, but in general parties don't run opposition to the incumbent because they know the incumbent won once, people generally are accepting of the individual as they reflect on their performance (as long as it isn't abhorrent) and so tossing in a "new" candidate comes with too many risks. Maybe the primary challenger wins within the party, but then the moderates or nevertrumpers can't stomach the new choice and sit it out or worse go back to Trump (or whoever). That's pretty much why we generally don't see primary challenges between terms of a president.
Even if there was another candidate, I 100% guarantee you that they would still support Israel. It's not a candidate issue, it's an American policy issue, one that can only really change by getting new blood in politics. And let's face it, it's not exactly like new blood is lining up to get into politics.
So... Fuck your single-voter minded argument and look at the bigger picture.
things biden has done fuck all on:
Things he's not done enough on:
I mean, are there really any issues he's actually peformed to expectations on?
Things in either list Biden has the ability to directly influence policy on:
And yet, all that… he promised.
And yet I'm sure you would happily throw tons of those up as a reason Trump must stay out of office. Which is it?
It's almost as if structural flaws in our government mean Trump would have a more cooperative congress and the willingness to outright ignore the rule of law to accomplish his goals...
It's almost as if the Democrats want to accomplish nothing while claiming they're doing everything they can.
And let's not act like the presidential candidate has no effect on the races themselves. Biden being a milquetoast neoliberal head of the party was not what we needed to retake Congress. And it's not going to help in 2024 either. God, Democratic apologists are the worst hypocrites.
"You have to vote for Biden or Trump will do all of these things!"
"Biden is bad on those issues too."
"Something something it doesn't count for him."
I agree you have it bad there. Unfortunately in politics we have to vote for the least bad option. On all the issue listed though, a lot is due to congress, mainly because people decided that republicans and their idea of not governing is preferable to democrats. Personally, I know the options are very bad, but I the sliver of democracy is still worth it to try to preserve in order to have the option to influence the next time around.
Interesting Points. However:
Will you vote for Biden then?
[Y/N]
I just want to say this "litmus test" bullshit you've presented is close to the grossest thing I've seen on here. People have fought and died for the right to have private votes, your "However" shows prejudice and the dangers of political identities corrupting normal conversations.
A right you will loose, if you dont vote Biden this time and let Trump win.
Political Identities corrupting a conversation? There is an open fascist running for president, and some people STILL wont stand in the way of that.
There is no normal conversation anymore!
You do realize the irony in saying I will lose a right if I don't give up the right to my vote? I wish everyone would just be honest about this conversation, if you presented it as continued Oligarchy vs Fascism you might actually persuade some people instead of pretending it's still a democracy.
But regardless, you asking people to present their voting preference for how you conduct a conversation is just insulting and dangerous. This is when extreme ideologies look identical and I can't tell which side people are presenting.
Oh the "present your voting choice" is an effective-filter for trolls who want to both-sides-bad the argument presented. And to trigger some guys who REALLY dont understand that voting is often, sadly, a strategic choice that does not benefit from high-minded morals in the face of Fascism.
You can go around on other comment section and ask them if they will vote for Biden or not. And see how people choke on their pride, begging to be the smuggest guy on the train...
It also cuts straight to the point: You either vote for the bad choice, Biden in this case, to delay fascism and give Democracy more time to live. Or the GOP more to crumble.
Or you dont. And loose it all.
Call it informed-simplicity if you will, because sometimes the world is just that in the end. Simple.
You vote for the lesser evil at the ballot. Always.
And after that duty is done, you do the REAL political work by organising. Always.
No change will be made at the ballot. That is just to buy us more time to unionise, educate comming generations and build communities.
Fuck you for enabling fascism, coward.
You should know: Comments like this push more people further from your cause.
I've been yelling Blue no Matter Who since 2020 (The GOP is domestically compromised, if you don't see, you're either not paying attention or wearing rose colored glasses) and this hateful "fuck you coward" shit is even making me consider noping out. I won't, but you guys are not helping at all.
NO ONE is going to come away from an interaction like this and go "Wow... Ya know I was on the fence, but I guess I am being a bit of a pussy cuck. I'll vote for Joe Biden to save democracy"
If your aim is to get people on board, you have to start talking to them as intelligent adults.
I agree, but anyone who opens a conversation with "fuck you" is not worth engaging with beyond responding in kind. They either know they're wrong and have nothing better to say, or their mind is made up and attempting to convince them otherwise is a waste of time.
And I say that with regards to myself, as well. If someone wants to spread bigotry and hate, I don't owe them civility and I am not there to embrace their perspective, so "fuck you" seems like the appropriate opener at times.
...said the person enabling genocide
It's not my first choice, but I'll take enabling genocide over enabling genocide, Russian imperialism, the collapse of NATO, the elimination of reproductive and marriage rights, the spread of homophobia, and the fall of democracy in the US.
This shouldn't even be a fucking choice for anyone with half a brain. Must be nice to say this from a position of privilege where you apparently don't have as much to lose, as long as you can live in the egocentric fantasy that your vote helped save Palestine as if Israel cares at all what the results of the US election are.
All those justifications for genocide and your seething anger that anyone would dare to question you make you sound exactly like a trump voter. You're not helping. It doesn't look like you're even trying to.
The fuck are you even on about? This isn't opinion, this is pragmatism.
If a politician wanted to change the rules of math to say that 1*1=2, you'd still be out there telling dissenters that their close-minded stance makes them sound irrational, wouldn't you?
"Here's why an ongoing genocide is actually good" isn't pragmatism. I don't have a word for what it is, but it's bad. Very bad. Genocidally bad. No metaphors or scenarios or math equations are going to make it good. Your argument is shit and if it's all you've got then the best thing you can do for Biden is shut the fuck up and vote for him, because you're not helping.
So how do you suppose abstaining helps stop the genocide?
Are you honestly lucky enough to have nothing else on the line in this election worth fighting for? Wish I was in your shoes if so.
I don't intend to abstain. I just think your argument is stupid and counter productive. Any argument against criticizing a politician who is doing something horrific is stupid and counter productive.
It blows my mind that you started your rant with "I'll take genocide" and still think you're the good guy
This entire argument is about the idea of not voting in November because somehow that will fix Palestine, not that politicians are above criticism. If you somehow missed that detail, I apologize on behalf of OP.
Though you also missed the earlier part where I said Biden isn't my choice of an ideal candidate, but good to know that you're no less competent at lifting statements outside of their context to moralize from a position of self-superiority.
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