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Banned from comms I haven't posted to in months because I said "Dragonfucker isn't a gender" on another instance
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this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2025
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Okay, but as I noted, I used Drag's pronouns. I don't remember ever using the wrong pronouns for Drag, though I'm sure a 'they' or the like slipped in in some deeply buried comment.
The issue becomes whether gender has any limits for what it means. I objected to both the fantastic and the species. For that reason, on another instance, in a discussion that did not involve Drag or Blahaj admins, I was banned from a bunch of comms that I hadn't even commented in in months.
I wasn't talking about you, I was referring to calling neopronouns "cosplaying". Its intentionally disrespectful.
You want me to ban myself?
Did you ban yourself? lol
I didn't say that, but I do think it would be good for you to reconsider your wording, especially considering you admit to not understanding, and then acknowledged later the relation to trans feelings and how the two can be related.
But I'm not a "ban them" kind of guy. I'm more of a "remove their comment and explain" kind of guy.
My comment wasn't intended to suggest that being trans is a form of gender cosplay, so I apologize if that was how it read.
However, I will stand behind my statement that identifying as a totally different species is indeed pure fantasy that makes no real world sense to me.
I do support it in the same vein that I support all creativity and fun. Furries-- fuck if I understand that, but if no one (or animal) is getting hurt, go wild and have a great time.
That being said, if I was asked by a furry to only refer to them as a dog or cat in all real world scenarios because that's the species they identify as, I simply cannot pander and think it's a pretty unreasonable and fantastical expectation.
I'm going to stand behind my statement that you're being demeaning for no reason then.
Let's try this. I'm going to just change a few words, and let's see how this feels to you:
That would be a pretty shitty take considering all we know about being trans, right?
Why does it have to make sense to you for you to not be shitty about it?
Why put so much effort in to be antagonistic rather than just acknowledge and either ignore and move on or refer to others as they'd prefer?
I don't consider it much different, personally. It doesn't bother or offend me. It doesnt hurt me to call someone by whatever they want to be called.
What I don't feel is a need to be hurtful in reference to their feelings.
You can change all the words you want, but that's not what I said, and I feel it's insincere to suggest the two statements are equal.
I'm allowed to draw a line and say, "this isn't my burden to bear, and I don't have to comply to simply avoid a rocked boat."
The offensive part to me I suspect is the same thing op finds offensive, which is the expectation that I am to comply with what is clearly someone's fantasy in all shape and definition.
We know gender identity is fluid and complex. We know sexuality is fluid and complex. The verdict is definitely way out there that species falls into this category, too.
I think its insincere to suggest they aren't. After all....
These two statements seem to be completely opposed to each other.
Not to mention, that same attitude was held towards trans folks for a long time, wasn't it? That they couldn't possibly feel that way, and it was just an expression of homosexuality?
Anyway, I'm off for tonight, enjoy your night.
I was trying to be generous with the "verdict is way out there" part. There will never be a day where a human is actually a dragon.
I am aware of a woman who is also a cat. I watched her belly dance in a jungle to a track by the artist Deep Forest. It was the first time as a preteen that I realized how sensual women could be. Or rather, cat women.
There are people who have the genuine belief in their "other" aspect of themselves. So thats how they prefer to be referred to. I think poking fun at that is unnecessary and wrong, its kind of as simple as that. Not something exclusive to this situation, just a pretty decent general rule.
What I would say the verdict is absolutely out on is a "why", and the impact it has on individuals. So a bit of courtesy and basic decency is all thats needed.
How do you feel about transracialism?
Isn't this a common TERF comparison?
I didn't realize TERFs often compared trans-species delusions to transracialism.
They compare transgender identities with transracialism. Close though.
It's close because it... includes a comparison to transracialism somewhere?
Is any comparison to transracialism in any context TERF now? Because that's the extent of the argument being presented.
Fucking ridiculous. Just throwing out labels and badjacketing in the hopes that it'll stick.
No, because the weaponization of race as a point of comparison to gender is done so specifically because of it's historical context - even though it is just as much of a social construct.
It's apples and oranges, but if apples had been enslaved on the basis of not being bananas for centuries, and oranges were being accused of not being a real fruit at all.
Get over yourself. It's not for you to decide what identities are legitimate or not.
Everything is a social construct, genius.
The fuck.
No, that's for you and your ilk to decide, of course, and to call anyone who disagrees fascists and transphobes.
I haven't called you a transphobe, at worst I accused you of being exclusionary, which as far as I can tell is actually what you are trying to be
No, you just JAQ off with innocent statements like "Isn't that what TERFs say???" with absurd points of comparison, like "You mentioned transracialism"
Given your exclusionary rhetoric I think it's an apt comparison.
Maybe deal with your own prejudice instead of seeking validation in these silly support groups.
Goodness gracious, how dare I exclude other species
Yeah, I'll seek support for my possumphobia. I'm sure my therapist will be shocked and appalled that I don't think that human beings can be possums.
Idk man, I don't know many people who care this much about defining gender to the exclusion of others that aren't fostering some form of bigoted prejudice, but you do you bud.
Transracialism has way more merit than transpeciesism, though.
I grew up amongst hispanic families, and definitely don't find it far fetched to identify with a different race, culturally and behaviorally. So I could see it, even though it might be a bit misplaced.
Like, that's at least based in reality.
But simply feeling Black or Hispanic doesn't make one Black or Hispanic; race is a cultural issue and culturally defined. Yet by the other commenter's arguments, feeling Black or Hispanic would be enough to make them unquestionably valid, because we cannot question the feelings of others.
My only point is that transracialism could at least be argued as having a real world basis, rooted in complex experiences of culture and race.
Identifying as a dragon, not so much...
Historical or modern?
Or that the modern usage has some scientific basis, and its still being explored?
Short answer - its a subject thats still being explored but has a degree of scientific support, so I see no reason to be mean about it.
What the ever-loving fuck
Princeton, about ten years ago. I'll dig up the materials tomorrow if you want.
Like I said, I like reading scientific materials.
If it's Brubaker, he's not saying what you think he is.
I think we took very different things from his book then.
Because I took away that there are people who genuinely believe it to be true for them. And since I don't go around referring to people by their race, or interact with people based on their racial identity, I don't have any reason to get myself involved beyond an "OK".
Wesker didn't mention neopronouns, though?
No, just an offhanded comment about them cosplaying.
Would you say that a trans woman was "cosplaying being a woman"?
No, but I'd say anyone who claimed to be a dragon was, at best, cosplaying being a dragon.
On account of dragons not being real, for one.
... OK now youre being a dick for no reason too.
I can't comprehend it any more than I can being trans, but why not give them basic respect for how they feel, regardless of what you think about it?
Is someone getting physically hurt by using neopronouns or by being respectful toward their feelings?
Are you being hurtful by saying they are cosplaying, in the same way that it would be hurtful to someone who is trans?
Thats kind of the line there dude. Your opinion on their lived experience is irrelevant, regardless of what I may think of it or you may think of it. Maybe they are a troll, maybe not.
Does it really harm you to not be demeaning towards others about it though?
💖
... for asserting people can't be dragons?
I can comprehend being trans. If I think about myself in a female body, trapped indefinitely, I feel horrified - like I would be alien in my own skin. That horror I feel is only abstract, and nothing compared to what trans people experience, but the principle is clear.
Again. At no point are neopronouns involved in this dispute.
Is it not hurtful to trans folk to equate their identities to someone who wants to play at being a dragon? Or more precisely, a dragonfucker?
Having opinions is demeaning?
That they can't feel like they are on the inside. Yes.
Principle, but not full comprehension. You logically understand the concepts. You dont fully comprehend it, and neither do I.
Just because I understand more relative to trans folks than I would for others that feel more unique doesn't mean I can't extend them the same basic respect and dignity though. If that's how they feel, thats how they feel.
Other than derogatory comments around them, like "cosplaying" as noted above. Yes.
Ah, so you speak for all trans folks then? Despite not being trans? Your basic understanding of the principles of being trans gives you the keen knowledge and insight to decide how all trans folks should feel relative about what someone else thinks of themselves on the inside?
Right. Cmon man. Youre better than this.
Like most other things in life - it depends on the presentation.
And yeah, I'd say even in this comment chain you've been pretty damn demeaning. Obviously my opinion, and to be clear I don't think you are at all a bad person.
But this, overall - yeah man you've got a really shitty take on this one. Its worth you spending time thinking about rather than reacting more, IMO.
Okay? There are people who feel like they have bugs on the inside. That neither means that they have bugs on the inside, nor does it mean that treating having bugs on the inside as the same as gender identity is in any way, shape, or form valid.
At that point, you can't 'truly' comprehend anything, so there should be no judgement or distinctions made regarding other people.
No? I asked you a question.
If you can't answer the question, how can you proffer a negative answer to it?
Fuck, man, I've thought and argued about this for years. I thought we left this behind in the early 2010s when Tumblr was doing turtlegender and babygender. "You haven't spent enough time thinking about gender" is bullshit, unless my entire adult life isn't long enough. I've put in time, thought, and the reading to understand trans and NB issues on at least a basic level so that I could fully support them in the political arena. When someone comes at me about perverts 'deciding' to change genders, I have a wealth of knowledge and constructed arguments to draw on. I'm not throwing this out there from some airy, just-learned-about-NB-identities position.
I'm just going to skip ahead, because the earlier parts I feel like are just a rehash of the part you're skipping over.
Not what I said.
I said you should think about your attitude around it. You should think about why you feel you need to be derogatory about it.
Its a pointless thing to be mean about. If its how someone feels, its how someone feels. If its someone being a troll, just being generally polite and considerate and not needing to shove your opinion on them or others is not going to feed troll behavior.
What I'm suggesting you reflect on is why you're being demeaning about it, rather than just acknowledging and moving on.
Because it trivializes an issue I believe is serious?
Because it's resulted in an instance regarding any disagreement with the idea as ban-worthy thoughtcrime?
Because when I get called a transphobe for not believing in dragons, it gets my dander up?
Okay? I feel that dragons aren't a gender. I didn't go and shove this in Drag's face, nor, for that matter, in Ada's face.
Why are my feelings on this invalid?
Shoot.
They may consider it serious too.
So you're trivializing others based on your perception that its trivializing. Seems kind of a shitty thing to do.
Its kind of been the rule forever there, basically the basis the entire instance was founded on. So... Yeah. Why is that a surprise?
I haven't commented on anything related to the mod/admin actions until just above, if you notice. Just comments in this thread. Do I think it was overstepping? Yes.
Do I also think you're being kind of a dick? Also yes.
You're basically outright saying that people couldn't possibly exist who feel different on the inside. Its just a different sense of self for them, which neither you - nor I for that matter - understand.
Your opinion and mine don't mean jack shit. Just like individual opinions about someone's ability to be transgendered don't mean jack shit. There is science behind being transgender - and its been set back already by decades (and likely centuries) due to conservative shitheads. If they hadn't, maybe there would be more scientific exploration of this aspect. I have no idea.
But what I do know is, unless its scientifically proven this can't be, or its still a possibility.
My opinion on it is meaningless.
Edit: [ ] a whole word.
Some people consider race-mixing serious, that doesn't mean that I have to treat their considerations with equal respect.
Didn't realize the basis of the instance was that dragons were real.
But you said:
But I was only 'mean about it' in the context of being accused of being a transphobe for having the opinion. I was not part of the conversation 'til then. I was not the one who brought up the issue. I didn't come out of nowhere to attack someone for saying they're a dragon - Drag, even, has commented numerous times on my posts without me getting into a fight with them about it. I was accused of being transphobic, I defended myself from the accusation by pointing out my rationale, and I get tone-policed for bitching on that after an admin comes from another instance and bans me? Fucking really?
At no point have I commented along the lines of 'feeling different on the inside' being invalid. The question is whether 'feeling different' is gender. Should I regard my gender as 'gassy' after a trip to Taco Bell?
... bruh, how much scientific literature on trans issues have you actually read.
... Again, right in this comment chain. Thats what I was talking about. At no point prior to my last comment - where I explicitly said I feel it was overstepping - did I day anything about what happened other than in this thread.
I'm going to skip the other parts that are, again, going to just make me repeat things ive previously said.
A decent bit, actually. I tend to read scientific papers and white papers, one of my friends and former coworkers was transitioning, I had questions, she sent me a ton of info (knowing I'd find it helpful). Because she's an awesome friend and knows me and how I process stuff.
Don't assume.
I think I'm done for tonight.
This is when you started calling me a dick:
Saying dragons aren't real is dickish, but calling someone a dick... isn't?
Then you should know that it's very much a question wrapped up in hormones and brain chemistry. Are you aware that non-human species have very different hormonal balances and brain chemistry compared to human beings?
Quite a bit more than that, including our understanding of genetic expression continually evolving.
Anyway, like I said, I'm done for tonight. Enjoy your night.
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