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He is still sending weapons to Israel. Run a non genocidal candidate if you want my help.
Otherwise you will get nothing from me.
Israel is bound by treaty to defend Israel as we are allies.
Biden is mostly trying to prevent a shooting war between Israel, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Which would 100% involve nukes and obliterate the global economy for decades. (Imagine all European - Asian oceanic trade just stopping).
That's why he's doing it. Hamas is a proxy agent for Iran they are using against Israel.
So I should support guaranteed genocidal actions now to maybe possibly prevent an event that might theoretically happen?
Also, when someone is committing genocidal acts, maybe it is time to break treaty with them.
Let Israel act however it wants without big daddy USA backing them and then let’s see their actions without the biggest military in the world backing them.
They only walk around wagging their ducks because they have backing.
Let them handle their own problems without us and then see how they act.
It is very easy to be a bully when you have a bigger friend to help.
We buy weapons FROM Israel. Like it or not, Israel is a military asset.
Ok, that changes nothing about what I said.
Well you live in a facist leaning and fascist sympathising country. Now what? Apathy doesn't seem like the best course of action.
So I should vote to support genocide?
If a vote either way supports genocide and no vote does nothing to stop genocide, what's the tangible difference?
If nothing you do matters, then the only thing that matters is what you do.
What I choose to do is to not support genocidal actions in as many ways as possible.
I can’t stop them from doing it, but I can choose not to support it myself.
Don’t worry though, they are increasing the bombings in south Gaza now as well so soon it will just be a bunch of dead people and after that it doesn’t really matter, because people will all forget in time.
But that’s the plan and it is working so 🤷♂️
I do agree with this. However, voter apathy is literally doing nothing. If you are paying taxes, you are still contributing to and arguably passively supporting it.
Actions I would think might matter are things like protest, campaigning for a third party against the thing you are against, running yourself, or retreating from this government's rule.
It could be argued that just by living in the country and not actively opposing the issue, then you are supporting it. Saying "I don't support this thing so I didn't vote for anyone", then pay taxes to the government that does the thing and enjoy the rich society of the country that does the thing, you're more actively participating in the thing than opposing it.
I know 100% where Biden stands by his actions.
trump says a lot of shit that he just can’t back up.
His nickname should be hummingbird, but he thinks it is alligator.
So on one hand I have a guaranteed wolf in sheep’s clothing on the other I have a no-toothed and idiotic wanna be wolf in a bear’s clothing.
Policies we can roll back, deaths we can’t.
Oh yes. Trump will certainly not continue that.
At some point you just have to accept that this will happen and you can't change it. From that point, pick your best future.
I pick the one that will let me sleep best at night, and knowing I didn’t support genocide will let me sleep great.
It really depends on what a Trump reign will look like, right?
Will he be able to round up tens of millions of people and deport them, as he has promised? Will he institute another Muslim ban, as he has promised? Will he stay in office after his next four year term, as he has said he wants to? Will he use the office of the president to persecute political opponents, as he has promised? Will he "root out" all the "vermin" in the United States, as he had promised? And if yes: who will get declared to be "vermin?" How will they be "rooted out?" Will he make torture legal, as he promised? Will he bring back family separation and child detention camps? Will he threaten nuclear war again? And if yes, will some crazy regime take him up on the offer?
And if all of that or even just a fraction of that comes to pass, will you still sleep well, knowing that you might have been able to stop all of that but voting for the lesser of two evils was just beneath you?
Because ultimately, that's the decision you're making.
Yep! People like to try and pretend you can not be neutral but unless I am voting FOR trump then I am not canceling out someone else’s vote.
I won’t help you guys re-elect a genocide supporting president either way.
We keep talking about Israel is not doing enough to stop civilians and wringing our hand while on our knees sucking Netanyahu’s dick and just begging him not to cum on our face because we need to look presentable.
They openly killed journalists, on video, with physical and forensic evidence, right after the journalists switched from recording the Lebanese side to the Israeli side.
While clearly marked as being press.
Defend that, also I am still waiting for those beheaded babies that the IDF used to rile everyone up with.
You know, the one the president you want me to support said he saw and then had to walk back later.
Refusing to participate doesn't make you neutral. It makes you complacent.
Are you okay with countries that see what's happening in Gaza and do nothing so that they don't have to get involved?
I can support the countries that are not actively supporting genocide.
Btw bad example, as far as I can tell, only the us is actively supporting genocidal actions, but I will reject anyone who is doing so.
I would much rather them do nothing instead of supporting Israel.
Don’t get me twisted, when 10/7 happened I completely supported them and felt grief for them and their suffering, then they decided to kill a bunch of kids.
Do you support killing innocent children as well?
Oh I'm staying neutral on this by not picking a side. That's a completely acceptable course of action right?
Yes it is!
Good job you’re learning.
Personally I disagree with you on the importance of not killing children, but you are free to have your own opinions.
But you did. You paid taxes and live in this country. Your lack of voting shows apathy, it doesn't absolve complicity.
If you really want to change it, you participate more, not less.
Rephrase I will sleep fine knowing I am not directly supporting genocide nor the people who enable it.
I will NOT vote for someone who is helping innocent children die.
You’re right about my indirect support, but I can not change that.
Let's establish the situation. There's only two outcomes of the election. Any other possibilities are so remote we can dismiss then.
Biden wins. The status quo continues.
Trump wins. More Palestinians and innocent children die.
There is a clear outcome here that is going to be worse and kill more people. You have three options on how to act:
A. Vote for Biden
B. Vote for Trump
C. Don't vote for either of them
If you pick A, 1 becomes more likely. If you pick B, 2 becomes more likely. If you pick C, 2 also becomes more likely because of the electoral college. If you pick A or B, you'll feel guilty. If you pick C, you'll (incorrectly) feel like you're innocent and not complicit.
You say you care about the people dying. That means you want the outcome with the least deaths, 1. If you want to outcome 1, you should pick A. Why are you refusing to?
No one here is delightfully voting for the genocide to continue. We want to stop it, but that isn't an option. Shouldn't we then act to minimize the death toll as much as we possibly could?
A child who survives in outcome 1 could die in outcome 2. If you don't strive for outcome 1, you have blood on your hands. Do you care more about having a falsely clear conscience, or do you want to save lives? It's very easy to say you want none of them to die. It's not as easy to take an action that you know will still result in people dying, but it kills fewer people.
If you are genuine in your convictions, and I choose to believe that you are, I am confident that you'll make the decision to try and save lives, at whatever personal cost to yourself.
I care about not supporting the killing of children.
If you actually cared, you wouldn’t give in to the lesser option.
Genocide is genocide is genocide.
Call me complicit if you want.
I will not actively support genocide in any form.
I can not stop it but I can not support it.
Do you care more about supporting the killing of children than you actually do about the killing of children itself? You're putting your morals ahead of human lives.
I'm not pleased to pick a lesser option, but there is no realistic option that will stop all the death instantly. You don't have to like it, but you have to acknowledge reality. This is going to continue no matter how you vote. All you can do is influence how many people it'll affect, and hope that puts us on a road to outright stopping these things in the future. Do you think Israel would feel so emboldened if Trump wasn't a possible leader?
And this doesn't even take into consideration other issues. Ukraine needs to be able to defend itself from Russia. If they don't get military support, Russia will kidnap and kill even more children. Republicans don't seem to care about that, but Democrats are pushing for that military support to happen. Here there is an option for your vote to stop the death of children. I wish it was Palestinian AND Ukrainian children, but the world is a shitty place, and all we can do is try to make it less shitty.
So I ask again. Do you care more about supporting the killing of children, at the expense of the actual killing of children?
Do you support killing children at all?
Why is this only confusing to Americans?
Every other country in the world other than ours sees what they are doing.
Withdraw our support and then see if Israel is still willing to keep up their actions over the last few decades.
They wouldn’t have done any of this shit because they would’ve known that they would’ve got their asses handed to them by everyone around them.
You cannot in anyway get me to support those genocidal bastards.
They are using the US aegis to do all of this and it is time we withdraw that.
Let them deal with the consequences of their own actions for once.
Maybe it will give them the attitude adjustment they need, if they want to toss around nukes then they will become an international pariah.
It won’t matter soon anyway, you will get what you want, Israel will massacre tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands and after that people like you will say “ oh well, there’s nothing we can do about it now let’s just forgive them and try to move on” and then they’ll do the same fucking thing as Putin is doing over and over and over just like all of the other innocent safe killed over fucking decades and you guys still want to support them
Out of curiosity: does your opposition to genocide extend to you joining protests, contacting your representatives, and encouraging others to do the same?
Or do your principles only extend as far as you not actually doing anything?
Sorry about the multiple replies, no clue what’s up with that.
When I try to delete them it just says “Error.”
You aren't voting for anyone. No one is. This is a first past the post voting system. You don't vote FOR people, you vote AGAINST people. And by not voting, you're saying you won't vote against either party.
Yep. I voted against trump last time, I got a president who supports genocide.
If genocide and genocide are the only two options then what does it matter who I vote for?
If the only thing you care about is genocide, then it doesn't matter.
It also means you don't care about improving the lives of your neighbors or mitigating other kinds of damage.
If that's how you really feel, then you do you. But being a single issue voter leads to very weird outcomes.
Devil I know vs the one I don’t.
Run someone who doesn’t support killing innocent by people.
Why is that so hard?
Should be easy. Should be simple. Clearly isn't. And you can't change that. So what will you do?
In first past the post, failing to vote is the same as a vote for the person you like least.
You may not like the game, but even by not playing you're playing.
See you people like to say that, but I’m not opposing you. I’m just not supporting you.
I could vote for trump, I can not vote, or I can vote for Biden.
I could cancel out one of your votes, I could add to your vote or I can do neither.
Do you see the difference now?
Yes, I fully understand. You think that no voting is a null action. That's a comforting but too simple viewpoint.
I recommend you watch the CPG grey video on first past the post voting. It's fun. It's quick. It explains my point better than text can.
https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=eB1eF4LoHLkykJDU
Cool I will just vote for trump since it is all the same then.
I don’t give a shit what you want to tell yourself to make you feel better about actively supporting genocide.
Here is a radical fucking idea, run a fucking candidate who doesn’t support genocide.
It won’t matter soon, all the people that matter are dying or dead already, after that people will just forget about it and them anyway, and then you guys will have your way about it.
You are supporting the guaranteed death now, vs what might happen later, and the actual people now will pay the price for your hypothetical actions in the future.
If you prefer the option of "genocide with a reduction of rights from my neighbors" more than "genocide alone", then that's you're right as a citizen to choose it.
And as much as you like to pretend that not voting somehow absolves you, it doesn't. To truly not be liable you need to stop paying taxes. Otherwise your participation in our economy props up genocide.
Once again I can not stop it but I can not give it my active support.
All of my neighbors rights? What about the rights of children not to die? We might be able to roll anything he does back, you can not roll back death
You ask me to support your hypothetical about what trump might do, I know what Biden is doing.
Given the options of guaranteed genocide or potential, why not pick the non guaranteed option?
So stop paying taxes. Otherwise you're funding child murder.
If only I could. The government takes all my taxes out without me being given the option. Yay mandatory sales tax!
You could. You could move out of the US and refuse to buy any US products. It would come at great personal cost to you, but it would mean you are completely not complicit.
Do your morals stop when you have to personally give or sacrifice? You refuse to vote because it would make you complicit, but you don't refuse to live in and contribute to a country that makes you complicit.
To be clear, I don't think this makes you a hypocrite. I'm just further pointing out that your absolutist morals aren't realistically sensible, and that your morals clearly aren't absolute if there's boundaries you won't cross to meet them.
Give me the money to afford it and get me and my family a visa to a different place.
There is a difference between what I can actually do and what I wish I could.
Here’s the thing, other countries don’t want to accept Americans because they see how we are.
So while theoretically I could do what you say, it’s going to take tens to hundreds of thousands to pull off which I can not to without abandoning my responsibilities to my children.
So, I do what little I can.
Perhaps, instead of working against me for the worst democratic candidate, you people to try to nominate someone who is actually worth a damn it does not support fucking genocide!
Got it, those innocent kids only matter if it isn't an inconvenience to your wallet or requires effort. Moving away for a clean conscience is too much, but voting for what's the best realistic scenario is an affront to your values.
So go ahead. Vote how you want. But know that if you don't vote against Trump, you're helping out Israel. It seems you're just fine with that though.
You should be a politician