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Everybody hates Illinois. People who live there even hate it. I was born there and promptly left.
Also lived there, also hated it. Never again
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Well obviously not everyone as I love it but im ok with you guys not wanting to be there. I have a feeling if you don't like chicago you would not like toronto.
I don't have a strong opinion on Chicago, I've only spent a few days there and it was downtown in a cold snap in February. There were some nice things to do but it was expensive and overall I've had better experiences in other cities. I liked it better than my wife did, she hates the cold. I on the other hand like to go snow camping (without her).
The people in the rest of the state hate Chicago because it dominates the politics, and the few Chicagoans I know aren't a fan of the rest of the state. For awhile I lived in St. Louis but worked across the river. I still have to drive across Illinois pretty often. It's flat fields of corn and thunderstorms in the summer, and frigid and hostile in the winter. I don't really hate Illinois by any means and I didn't choose to move away - I was only two and my parents moved to the Netherlands. I actually like Champaign/Urbana, I have lots of connections there. I still wouldn't choose to live in Illinois though.
I mean it sounds like your judging Illinois by your experiences in east saint louis which is one of the worst places in Illinois. Also just south of there is the southern tip of Illinois. The part where it starts contracting to a point. That is honestly more like Kentucky than Illinois. Most people in the state don't hate Chicago. I mean there are some but every state has folks that are like that. East of the mountains in California is sorta the same thing. North of Kankakee is far different than middle Illinois like urbana which is far different from that swampy southern area of the state. Anyway Illinois it likely more like Ontario than any other state although admittedly Minnesota may be the exception but only because the weather gives them an edge :)
I never really spent any time in East St. Louis. I worked in Belleville, Collinsville, Fairview Heights and Alton. I've been down south and up north and most of the middle of the state. I've lived in Minneapolis too, and a lot of other big cities both in the US and Europe. Minneapolis wasn't my favorite either. I love Portland, San Francisco, Duesseldorf, St. Louis and Cincinnati. I'll pass on most of southern California too. Paris is another one I'm not a fan of, but France overall is nice. I think it's okay to have broad opinions based on your personal experiences. Obviously I'm not judging every individual. Some places just have a certain vibe.
I getcha. Even Champaign/Urbana is two very different places but I liked them each in their own way I feel they each complimented each other. All the specific places you mention though are basically that near saint louis and south of that I would attribute to the south of the state thing or the saint louis thing. Don't get me wrong I like saint louis but illinois is basically the bad side of saint louis and its basically a small bit around that city. then that southern part of illinois you pretty much draw an east west line from the center of saint louis north/south and its south of that. Its funny because when on the road the highway takes a deep dive down and I swear you start hearing that music from deliverance.
I can't quote your text on the android app I'm using, but talking about the deliverance music - you're not wrong lol.
I've also spent a lot of time in rural places, not just big cities. And there are some amazing and wonderful hillbillies/rednecks whatever they call themselves. So welcoming and will spend half their day helping you out asking nothing in return. There are also some really terrible people in those nowhere swamps and hills. You don't want to be stuck needing help with the wrong people around. [deliverance music continues]
Oh one more thing, I mostly agree about the places I worked being the bad side of St. Louis. Except Alton. Alton is a nice little town and has it's own vibe. I haven't been there in quite a few years but if it hasn't gone way downhill it's a nice place.
oh yeah and particularly with illinois there are some wonderful public spaces. Met this wonderful couple who managed the camping spots but like some ramshackle "motels" were scary as fuck.
I camp almost every time I have 48 hours away from work so if you have a campground recommendation I'd love to hear it. I'm currently in Cincinnati so all I have to do is get across the barren landscape of Indiana to get there.
Yeah now I'm generalizing another state. I think Indiana has really weird laws and is mostly boring but Indianapolis has a ton of energy. I go there for concerts pretty often. Geographically the only interesting places are near Lake Michigan and in the very south along the Ohio river where there are some hills. Clifty Falls is beautiful but the campground isn't great. The town next to it - Madison, it's like out of a movie, and one of the few places in that part of the state where both progressives and conservatives might feel very comfortable.
Its been awhile but I think we went to Shawnee National Forest back then. certainly starved rock is neat but that is way north. I was delaying while I texted my brother about this place he brings his kids which I thought might tempt your wife as it is a bit like glamping but he is not responding fast enough. Let me know if you would like to know as I will respond later once he does but otherwise I will blow it off.
Yeah I'd like to know if you hear back. I've only had a short hike in the Shawnee National Forest and I got about six ticks on me. It was high tick season and not nearly my worst tick experience. I got hundreds somewhere in southern Missouri, if I looked at a map I could probably figure out where but it's kind of the opposite of a recommendation. Just avoid the hills of southern Missouri during tick season.
one more thing he mentioned its more expensive in season so if you go fall or spring you can get better prices and decent weather. Its open all winter for the cabins that have heat. If its important to make a fire then also check if the particular cabin supports it. You could of course do the spaces but I doubt your wife would be onboard at that point.
Yeah its like a bog down there. My brother got back and its more mid state near peoria. Its got animals and as I said some more almost glamping options with bathrooms and kitchens and one even has a private dock. Prices are not bad but if you go he mentioned the membership has a discount where if you go enough days its worth it enough for the discount it gives. https://wildlifeprairiepark.org/lodging/accommodations