0
Zelenskiy to visit Washington in bid to break Senate deadlock on Ukraine aid
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2023
0 points (NaN% liked)
World News
38563 readers
2900 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Have you ever considered Ukraine could lose?
Russian is fucked. 350k dead or wounded, another million plus able-bodied men fled, the best military shit destroyed, and the oil spigot shut off to Europe.
Only thing holding that country together is the lies.
And those are starting to unravel.
Have you ever considered Ukraine could lose?
It's a yes or no question.
Edit: Since he just downvoted without answering, we can safely assume his answer is 'no.'
He has never considered Ukraine could lose.
Have you considered "who gives a shit" as a response to that question? Each tank destroyed in Ukraine is a tank that won't need to be destroyed in the Baltics, in Poland or Finland.
Got another one who hasn't considered Ukraine could lose.
Why are you people so afraid to answer this simple yes or no question?
You seem to thinking asking that is some gotcha but it's not lmao. Yes, pretty much everyone has considered the possibility. What is the exact point you are trying to make here? Stop obfuscating and just say it.
It doesn't seem that way. Look at how mad people get at the mere suggestion of it.
People are mad because you're acting like a troll and not engaging just repeating a dumb question that doesn't even make sense in context of anything anyone is talking about
Okay.
You do realize that simplifying an issue to a "yes or no" is bad debating? Life isn't black and white. Yes, Ukraine might lose in the end. They also might win. As I said - I don't give a shit send them all that is possible so they can win.
No actually, it's not 'bad debating' when the point is that people are succumbing to propaganda.
You try to make it about "people succumbing to propaganda" when most people don't give a shit. They want old weapons to be sent to a country that is currently defending itself from Russia. That's the point of this entite thread, post, whatever.
They want those weapons to be sent because they believe(d) it would enable Ukraine to do things like take back Crimea. Which it hasn't been able to do.
Now we pivot to them needing more to do what? Slow their loss?
I don't think Ukraine can prevent a Russian victory without foreign troops. Not just volunteers; coordinated, foreign, military aid.
Russia has too many men. Their propaganda machine is too strong. Even if Ukrainians can kill more Russians per Ukrainians lost, the numbers simply cannot be ignored unless you are succumbing to propaganda.
Trick question. Ukraine has already lost the second Russia invaded. They've lost an entire generation. They could still lose territory but I don't see them ever compromising at this point and Russia would have generations of insurgencies to deal with. Ukraine will eventually gain back their territory, if not within the current conflict.
That's not why the West is supporting them though. They are supporting them because Russia is fighting an aggressive land grab not seen since WWII (or arguably Kuwait but not by a nuclear power) and using the exact same tactics. Every major world institution set up since WWII was to prevent exactly this type of aggression.
So, to answer your leading question, yes Ukraine could still lose the current conflict. They already have and that's why they need the aid so that Russia can be as punished as possible to maintain the current deterrence for any other states that would seek to do the same thing.
It's not a trick question at all.
Ukraine is still defending its territory. Ukraine thought, at one time, that it could even take back Crimea. I'm sure many of you thought it could as well. At what point do you admit when you were wrong and acknowledge you could be wrong in the future?
Now it's clear they can't take back Crimea, regardless of how many people believed otherwise. I'm trying to suggest to those same people that maybe, just maybe, it's possible Ukraine is unable to defend its remaining territory as well.
The propaganda machine is in full-swing. Don't fall victim to it, on either sides.
700 Russian casualties yesterday and the kids in the Black Sea naval war says this situation is still significantly dynamic. Failure to advance does not mean Ukraine has lost the way anymore than it means Russia has lost the war in their failure to take Avdivka. People matter. Attrition matters.
War is politics by other means. Germany lost WWI due to a political failure, not anything on the frontlines. French Soldiers were mutinying up to the day of the armistice. There is a lot of political will in Ukraine and Russia didn't seem to get the memo that this has turned into an attritional fight. You interpret that as stalemate. They have interpreted it as needing to kill as many Russians as possible. With an average of 800 Russian casualties a day for the last two months, I'd say they are absolutely not losing this war but showing they can consistently be trusted to take the actions that are most sounds towards winning the war.
Don't think I don't understand propaganda and that both sides do it. You do match the Russian narratives perfectly though. Suspiciously so, actually.
Yeah, I just skipped to the end cause I knew you were going to do this.
Anyone who is not unwavering in their support of Ukraine is a Russian troll in your mind.
Forget all the comments I make about diverting resources from Israel to Ukraine, lol. The fact I suggested Ukraine might lose is enough for me to "match the Russian narratives perfectly." Suspiciously so, actually.
Nice tribalism. I don't expect you to rise above it or acknowledge it.
You're doing it right now.
Silly chitak166, don't you realize anyone who disagrees is a Russian bot.