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Zelenskiy to visit Washington in bid to break Senate deadlock on Ukraine aid
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2023
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Have you ever considered Ukraine could lose?
Russian is fucked. 350k dead or wounded, another million plus able-bodied men fled, the best military shit destroyed, and the oil spigot shut off to Europe.
Only thing holding that country together is the lies.
And those are starting to unravel.
Have you ever considered Ukraine could lose?
It's a yes or no question.
Edit: Since he just downvoted without answering, we can safely assume his answer is 'no.'
He has never considered Ukraine could lose.
Have you considered "who gives a shit" as a response to that question? Each tank destroyed in Ukraine is a tank that won't need to be destroyed in the Baltics, in Poland or Finland.
Got another one who hasn't considered Ukraine could lose.
Why are you people so afraid to answer this simple yes or no question?
You seem to thinking asking that is some gotcha but it's not lmao. Yes, pretty much everyone has considered the possibility. What is the exact point you are trying to make here? Stop obfuscating and just say it.
It doesn't seem that way. Look at how mad people get at the mere suggestion of it.
People are mad because you're acting like a troll and not engaging just repeating a dumb question that doesn't even make sense in context of anything anyone is talking about
Okay.
You do realize that simplifying an issue to a "yes or no" is bad debating? Life isn't black and white. Yes, Ukraine might lose in the end. They also might win. As I said - I don't give a shit send them all that is possible so they can win.
No actually, it's not 'bad debating' when the point is that people are succumbing to propaganda.
You try to make it about "people succumbing to propaganda" when most people don't give a shit. They want old weapons to be sent to a country that is currently defending itself from Russia. That's the point of this entite thread, post, whatever.
They want those weapons to be sent because they believe(d) it would enable Ukraine to do things like take back Crimea. Which it hasn't been able to do.
Now we pivot to them needing more to do what? Slow their loss?
I don't think Ukraine can prevent a Russian victory without foreign troops. Not just volunteers; coordinated, foreign, military aid.
Russia has too many men. Their propaganda machine is too strong. Even if Ukrainians can kill more Russians per Ukrainians lost, the numbers simply cannot be ignored unless you are succumbing to propaganda.
Trick question. Ukraine has already lost the second Russia invaded. They've lost an entire generation. They could still lose territory but I don't see them ever compromising at this point and Russia would have generations of insurgencies to deal with. Ukraine will eventually gain back their territory, if not within the current conflict.
That's not why the West is supporting them though. They are supporting them because Russia is fighting an aggressive land grab not seen since WWII (or arguably Kuwait but not by a nuclear power) and using the exact same tactics. Every major world institution set up since WWII was to prevent exactly this type of aggression.
So, to answer your leading question, yes Ukraine could still lose the current conflict. They already have and that's why they need the aid so that Russia can be as punished as possible to maintain the current deterrence for any other states that would seek to do the same thing.
It's not a trick question at all.
Ukraine is still defending its territory. Ukraine thought, at one time, that it could even take back Crimea. I'm sure many of you thought it could as well. At what point do you admit when you were wrong and acknowledge you could be wrong in the future?
Now it's clear they can't take back Crimea, regardless of how many people believed otherwise. I'm trying to suggest to those same people that maybe, just maybe, it's possible Ukraine is unable to defend its remaining territory as well.
The propaganda machine is in full-swing. Don't fall victim to it, on either sides.
700 Russian casualties yesterday and the kids in the Black Sea naval war says this situation is still significantly dynamic. Failure to advance does not mean Ukraine has lost the way anymore than it means Russia has lost the war in their failure to take Avdivka. People matter. Attrition matters.
War is politics by other means. Germany lost WWI due to a political failure, not anything on the frontlines. French Soldiers were mutinying up to the day of the armistice. There is a lot of political will in Ukraine and Russia didn't seem to get the memo that this has turned into an attritional fight. You interpret that as stalemate. They have interpreted it as needing to kill as many Russians as possible. With an average of 800 Russian casualties a day for the last two months, I'd say they are absolutely not losing this war but showing they can consistently be trusted to take the actions that are most sounds towards winning the war.
Don't think I don't understand propaganda and that both sides do it. You do match the Russian narratives perfectly though. Suspiciously so, actually.
Yeah, I just skipped to the end cause I knew you were going to do this.
Anyone who is not unwavering in their support of Ukraine is a Russian troll in your mind.
Forget all the comments I make about diverting resources from Israel to Ukraine, lol. The fact I suggested Ukraine might lose is enough for me to "match the Russian narratives perfectly." Suspiciously so, actually.
Nice tribalism. I don't expect you to rise above it or acknowledge it.
You're doing it right now.
Silly chitak166, don't you realize anyone who disagrees is a Russian bot.