this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2024
315 points (81.8% liked)
Asklemmy
43723 readers
1530 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
They believe that taking a moral stand against the Democrats, who are supporting Israeli genocide, is worth it even if that means that Trump, who even more fervently supports Israeli genocide, becomes president.
nice hasbara
Describe "even more"? In what specific material ways would trump increase support for Israel?
He would if he could but Harris is giving it a 100% already so Trump can't up that.
Trump has been deliberately framing himself as a protector of Israel who supports them doing whatever they want to.
Even calling it "Israeli genocide" is transferring responsibility. "Supporting" is an understatement. The democrats ARE THE ONES DOING THE GENOCIDE. Biden can stop it with a single phone call. Israel is not an independent state; it is a subordinate of the US.
Telling people to vote for your party, a nazi party, at the absolute peak of your depraved inhuman bloodthirst, because the other side might be worse, is the most cynical fucking thing I've ever heard.
I'd rather vote for the party that's 85% nazi than 100%. And in a world where it's entirely unrealistic that anyone else can win between past-the-post voting and voter disenfranchisement, that's the best we're getting.
holy shit they're actually doing the 99% hitler meme now, this country is cooked
oh to be clear. I know the democrats are doing terrible things, I just think it's easier and more practical to get them to stop than it is to keep them out of office.
Yeah good luck with that buddy that's definitely been effective in the past and totally isn't more of what got us here in the first place and isn't actively undermined by the current protests going on and the presidency being at stake for them and their policies still not budging or their voters' demands even being acknowledged.
Dude. Sentences are useful.
eh. Not my style.
This was a meme like 6 years ago, that we'd get to the point that US democrats would accept a candidate that's 99% pro-genocide compared to the 100% republican one. It's worked, and now democrats are falling over themselves to defend this genocide and their party's staunch material support for it.
Keep voting tho, its working great so far. The USA keeps improving by doing the same thing over and over again. /s
I genuinely do believe we're going to look back this time as inexcusable. Right now, Netanyahu's extreme right flank is now advocating for settlement of the parts of Gaza that have been ethnically cleansed. Specifically, they're saying that as long as the army stays there for a permanent long-term occupation, that can be the first step to proceeding with settlements.
It's so much worse than even the Iraq war. I've seen by some estimates that the Iraq war displaced 2 million people, and the deaths, before they stopped counting, were between 100,000 and a quarter million.
I think the deaths and displacements in Gaza probably are going to exceed those, and it's concentrated in a much smaller area, and it's horrifyingly closer to affecting the whole population.
Simply put there's no excuse for this moral atrocity.
And here's the but: I don't see how a strategic attitude of indifference to who runs the State department brings it closer to an end. And I don't see that that attitude is one of even pretending to try for an alternative. I do think supporting politicians especially in their Democratic primaries is a positive step. And I do think, as with the Iraq war, galvanizing a sea change and discrediting everyone who is associated with what happened in Gaza is necessary. I believe it is urgent to do something, and the actual channels of aid that can meaningfully do something right now exist entirely outside of party infrastructure of either party. But I also think, for how true that is, using that to lose sight a very real and very serious differences between the parties that also affect human welfare in numerous ways, would be to needlessly visit tragedy upon tragedy. I wouldn't want to lose American democracy into the bargain, and I don't think it's nuanced to be in indifferent to that.
tl;dr: "Can't beat them, might as well join them!"
Nope, not even close to what I said.
it's the greater Israel project. they openly talk about it
Yes, it's cynical. It's based on the jaded belief that democracy is 90% dead, and Americans only get to make one of two meaningful choices.
The opposite belief, which is that America is a democracy and you can vote for whoever you want, is hopeful and patriotic. It puts a lot of trust in the American system. It shows faith that politicians have our best interests at heart, and that it'll all work out if you just say what you want.
Is that how you want to describe yourself? As a patriot who believes in America? It doesn't seem to align with your worldview, but it's what your actions are saying.
you're a silly one
So when Trump wins and my rights to exist are stripped even further, I’ll be sure to thank you for it
The dems are not bringing your rights back. Project 2025 is happening regardless of who wins president due to how captured the court system is.
Republicans and Democrats were unable to stop legislation from the Judiciary with Roe v. Wade and later Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization. Super PAC's donate multiple lifetimes of dollars to Presidential candidates in a quid pro quo system protected by the first amendment under Citizens United v. FEC. Americans outside the oligarchy will never exhibit their influence.
If oligarchs find your existence icky, they have the power to remove your "right" to exist. You lack the power to prevent it. Instead of thanking anyone, I suggest we take the power back. Punch up.
Voting doesn't affect your ability to do other activism.
Agreed. Voting shouldn't be the only activism we are involved in. My comment was about solidarity against the oligarchs that can decide to make life harder for people they deem icky.
stop voting for genocide.
Every vote or lack thereof is a vote for genocide. There isn't really a way to vote against it.
I honestly appreciate the downvotes as a counter of angry people shamed into silence
Good. You should be fucking ashamed.
Yeah, you're misreading that.
Yeah the "democrats are the REAL nazis" is tiring when you get comments from the republican hero agent Orange: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/10/trump-military-generals-hitler/680327/
Shut the fuck up. I never said the republicans weren't nazis. I'm just fucking sick of you being an out and open nazi and acting like you fucking aren't.
Not voting blue is voting red in the current system. So how do I not vote for a nazi party?
Well good news! I'm not voting red, so therefore I'm voting blue! Happy now, dipshit? Now you've got the swing state of California in the bag!
Don't worry comrade I'm holding the line here in Michigan 🫡 one less vote for Trump!!
“Everyone I don’t like is a nazi”
I like everyone but nazis
Everyone on the side of genocide can be called a Nazi, yes.
I’m not voting democrat because I “support genocide”, I’m voting democrat because if Trump gets elected, shit is about to get a WHOLE lot worse. It is damage control
You can keep sitting here and acting like a fucking child throwing a temper tantrum because you don’t like the reality of our only choices, but you are being just that. A child.
You can sit on the sidelines on your little soapbox and virtue signal all you want, but when Trump wins I won’t be blaming the republicans. I’ll be blaming all of you.
You let your mask slip by calling opposing genocide "virtue signalling". You're a bad person and a bad advocate for the democrats.
Whatever you say, buddy. Do something of value instead of sitting here bitching at regular people just trying to survive (aka virtue signaling)
Genocide is a necessary but not sufficient condition for nazism.
Okay, I'm still gonna call them nazis
Their tiny liberal brains can't handle anything that isn't a binary choice.
They have fully accepted, absorbed and now spout George W Bush's slogan of "You're either with us or with the terrorists" without any irony that they are the terrorists!