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If Trump wins the election, US cities are at risk of military takeovers and mass deportations
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2024
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politics
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They aren't anti 2a. They're anti extremist interpretation.
If they had the ability to repeal the 2nd, they would. The end goal is alway complete removal. Let's stop acting like its not.
If we ever have the ability to repeal the 2A then the GOP is already in shambles and we'll have the opportunity to make all kinds of other reforms that makes it impossible for them to recover.
Let's stop following GOP propaganda by pretending that it is.
https://lemmy.world/comment/12950998
Let's stop acting like the person you're discussing firearms with is a gop supporter...yea?
None of my sources are gop driven links...so...have fun.
39% support among Democrats. Not all Democrats, not a plurality, and not even a majority.
Two of those fucking links went to the same stupid bill from 1994 that a handful of people put forward as an alternative to the assault weapons ban, and one of them is goddamn sticker on Amazon. You really are grasping at straws here.
I can understand the appeal for repealing the 2nd amendment, since a lot of people consider it too vague to have any real meaning, and the conservative loaded SC has determined that "well regulated militia" extends to groups of racist hilljacks in a pickup shooting unarmed black men.
That being said though... 39% of Dems oppose it, which means that the Democratic party as a whole is 61% in favor of keeping it.
So, are you gonna take the L and delete your comment, or are you gonna post another wall of bullshit that you didn't even bother to read before calling it gospel and spreading it over the fediverse?
So those %39 aren't really Democrats? Got it...
Lol no they're not, and the Amazon link is for a book from a Democrat....but ok...
Yea no... it's only people who are antigun that find it vague... it's got commas and states two things. The people should be able to bear arms and that the militia should exist... because at that time both sides considered a standing army to be a no go...so history tells us it's not vague... just antigun groups do.
Lol...yea cause 39% is so little.
You mean are you going to keep whining because you don't know history and think dems are pro2a?
Strawman argument. My counter-point as a whole was not that everyone wants to keep the 2nd Amendment, but that Democrats do not want to repeal the 2nd amendment. It has less than 50% support in the party. To further express why you are attacking a strawman...
So those %8 aren't really Republicans? Got it...
I think the only people who find it straight-forward believe that any number of mass shootings, school shootings and random shootings is acceptable, as long as there are no more restrictions of any kind on their ability to purchase, sell, and use any weapon.
Also, most constitutional law scholars who had fucking doctorates in this shit find it vague.
Still <50%... Lol?
Are you acting like you do know the history of 2A movents in the US? Don't make me laugh.
Anymore bullshit opinions pieces and Amazon links you want to spam here as "evidence"?
That's not what a strawman argument is, the original user stated that no dems want to ban the 2nd, I have clearly provided sources that state this is bullshit.
This is a strawman, as it's not part of the original argument.
Hey... another strawman....
Yea no they don't, unless they're antigun, then it magically becomes vague.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Here there is an entire section dor scholarly comments.
Lol yea cause 1/3rd is a tiny amount.....also straw man.
Lol sure thing, I don't know what I'm talking about.
Ah left leaning sources that disagree with you are now ...bullshit...damn
Woooo boy. I really don't need to say anything here. Your previous comment pretty much cements you as a conservative troll, and anyone that makes it this far down is clearly going to see it.
Yea...not a conservative or a troll....but I guess that's what I get from arguing with people who can't back their shit up...you going to call me a nazi fascist next as well?
Says the guy posting Amazon links and duplicates of the same old failed bill from 30 years ago as evidence for their claims that the current Democratic party wants to eliminate the second amendment.
Says the guy who thinks that 39% of a group holds more sway over policy than the remaining 61%
Says the guy who literally tried to build a no-true-scotsman strawman 2 posts ago, and then just did DARVO shit when they got called on it.
There's only 2 options here. Either you're a conservative troll...Or, you are using conservative troll fallacies to "back up" conservative troll propaganda, and you just can't recognize it.
So what's it gonna be?
Yea a book and bills from Democrats...but it doesnt count.
Lol head in sand
Rofl yea sure thing, it's sad that any criticism of the left, is met by the same "nuh uh" response as the right wing idiots. Also you're the one doing the no-true-scotsman by suggesting all of my links are not democrats...
I'm not either, but you really should look in the mirror and ask yourself why your rebuttal is literally the same shit the idiots on the red team do.
It's gonna be, I'm getting tired of the deflection and you putting fingers in your ears... you're boring me now.
Quote me, jackass.
https://lemmy.world/comment/12954770
Lol literally you saying none of my links count, and that 39% doesn't count...fuck outta here with your double speak bullshit.
Also find it hilarious you're at the name calling rebuttal lol
Look at that, you can't quote me, because I didn't fucking say it.
As for the name calling, you're the one lobbing false accusations at me, an insult beyond me calling you out for the stubborn donkey that you're acting like.
Lol sure thing kid. You're entire rebuttal was basically "those don't count"....so yes you absolutely did say it. Stop acting like you didn't.
No, my rebuttal was that you posted a bunch of bullshit opinions pieces, 30 year old theater bills and a fucking Amazon link as "evidence" that the Democratic party's platform wants to repeal the second amendment.
Your whole argument that I think those people don't count as Democrats (a no-true-scotsman) you invented in your 2nd comment to me. In case you fucking forgot, here it is.
This is literally you, building your own argument and attacking it instead of countering the argument that I put forward. Literally that is the definition of a strawman.
From Wikipedia :
Enough of this though, here is the DNC's platform for 2024
https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/
Feel free to look through it, and see what Democrats actually want to do, instead of believing bullshit republican propaganda about the Democrat platform.
Learn some shit, and then get lost. You're done here.
Lol yea....all my links and the poll was republican propaganda.
Lol ok kid
Your links are fucking laughable. No amount of Amazon shit, and opinions pieces are indicators of the platform for a political party. The most substantial thing was the 2 links to the same failed performance bill from 1994... Which was never intended to pass, it was intended to signal the alternative if we couldn't get an assault weapons ban.
You'd fucking know that if you were alive in the early 90's...like this "kid" was. You fucking lost, get over it.
Yea 39% isn't substantial. Got it.
Like 90s hahahah.
Listen to me... 39 Smaller than 61. Say it with me
39 is smaller than 61.
So let's get this straight, are you saying that the 39% are more substantial than the 61%?
My whole point is:
Democrats do not want to repeal the second amendment. It's not part of the platform, it's never been part of the platform in my entire life.
No, you can't just cherry pick a few opinion pieces and Amazon links as supporting "evidence" for your claim that Democrats want to repeal the 2nd amendment. A group of people is not a hive mind, it's a collection of individuals who have their own stances on every single issue presented. In the poll you posted, 8% of gun-loving Republicans wanted to repeal the 2nd amendment... Are they not Republicans because they disagree with the part on that issue? Do they matter? Of course they do, and it would be silly to deny it, but that minority does not determine policy positions for the party.
Democrats do not want to repeal the 2nd amendment, full stop.
If you said, "most of the people who want to repeal the second amendment are Democrats" I'd agree with you. If you said "more Democrats than Republicans want to repeal the second amendment" I'd agree with you, but saying that "The Democrats are hiding their desire to repeal the second amendment" is plainly false. It's not supported by the statistics, it's not supported by history. The only thing that supports it is a handful of opinion pieces and a few Amazon links.
Honestly, if you still can't understand this now, then you are either not representing yourself in good faith, or you are too far down the rabbit-hole to recognize logic or irony anymore. Either way, we should be done here. Unless you can come back with something substantial, like a recent (let's say, post 9-11) bill brought to the floor by a majority of Democrats in Congress, or a platform statement by Democrats setting a goal to repeal the 2nd amendment, or a poll showing more than 50% Democrat support for a 2A repeal, then your position, that Democrats want to repeal the second amendment, is not based in reality.
They say with zero evidence.
I never understood why it's something that Dems want to hide. There is a pretty damn large portion that want to repeal the 2nd.
https://time.com/5216782/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment/
https://newrepublic.com/article/166628/democrats-repeal-second-amendment-guns
https://www.congress.gov/bill/103rd-congress/house-joint-resolution/81
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/09/opinions/gun-reform-second-amendment-repeal-uvalde-shooting-press/index.html
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/repeal-second-amendment-gun-control/
https://www.amazon.com/Repeal-Second-Amendment-Safer-America/dp/1250244404
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/national-firearms-act
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a19608552/major-owens-second-amendment-repeal/
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2019/bills/SCR42_.pdf
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2022/07/11/jayland-walker-highland-park-uvalde-second-amendment/7809531001/?gnt-cfr=1&gca-cat=p
Because the poll has somehow vanished...
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/one-in-five-americans-wants-the-second-amendment-to-be-repealed-national-survey-finds/
So can we stop pretending that support to repeal and ban all guns isn't something that is the end goal?
Lmao, throwing the kitchen sink at us and hoping we won't check the details?
Retired Supreme Court Judge
Opinion article saying Democrats should, by a staff writer
A House Bill from 20 years ago with no co-sponsors, that didn't even make it out of committee.
A Podcaster's opinion article
Opinion article saying Democrats should, by a staff writer
College Professor wrote a book
The law saying you can't have fully automatic weapons, (LMFAO, really? you think that's a repeal of the second?)
An article about the the representative from number 3, who again, acted alone, admitted he acted without party support, and admitted it was little more than a political stunt. Thank you for giving us the first real evidence that Democrats are not trying to ban guns or repeal the second.
Some state legislators asking for a clarifying amendment. Which, (checks notes), yup completely ignored by the party.
A paywalled opinion piece by a staff writer.
Your Seattle Times article puts those numbers in the correct light, because 39 percent isn't a majority or anywhere near enough to force action on the national level.
So no. The answer is no. Because despite using eleven sources you could not find any evidence the democrats are actually trying to ban all guns. Even if we repealed the second amendment it wouldn't ban all guns, it would just open the opportunity to regulate them.
I will however say that every time the GOP offers thoughts and prayers over the bodies of children, that number grows and once it reaches a tipping point a ban will be inevitable and there will be no glorious civil war because support will just be that high. If the GOP backed off for even a second and allowed red flag laws and universal background check, and had their state AGs prosecute those laws then there would be less shit for law abiding gun owners to wade through. Which is why 75 percent of Americans support Universal Background Check and Gun Licensing. The country is still willing to work with you, that may not be true in a another decade with a hundred more high profile mass casualty events at schools.
? You asked for sources, I provided them and you complain...way to start out.
A democrat appointed judge. Guess he doesn't count some how.
Ah yea another Democrat that doesn't count...got it.
So...a bill from a Democrat...but doesn't count...this is going to be a trend with you isn't it?
Another Democrat that doesn't count...
Yep definitely a trend...
A democrat got it... doesn't count
I forgot how death by 1000 cuts doesn't count...you sound like a anti-abortion mouth piece saying abortion can still be had in other states, but it's fine to be banned in red ones.
Sooo yep... doesn't count because they're not true Democrats? I hear this a lot from Republicans when they try and refute points...
So....(Checks notes) Not a real Democrat...got it.
Another not real democrat...man you really think very few people are Democrats.
So 39% aren't real Democrats is what you're saying?
Got it no real Democrats..
Why are we talking about the shit stains in the GOP?
You do realize a good chunk of the GOP supports ERPOs right? But again why are we talking about the GOP? That wasn't your question.
We've had 15 mass shootings in schools since Columbine... we're going to need to have way more each year to get to 100 in under a decade. UBC requires a registery, but most people are to stupid to know this...and gun licensing is a joke.
None of that is going to stop or even dent gun deaths in this country.
If I have to acknowledge everyone who self identifies as a democrat then you have to acknowledge the Republicans and pro 2A groups are terrorists who should be hunted down and renditioned. After all, we're counting what every single person who self identifies with the group says right? Not their actual platform or actions?
Lol wait wait you're suggesting that people who own guns and are pro2a are terrorists? Lol the fuck is wrong with you.
Lol you literally cannot fathom that there is a good chunk of the Democratic party that would ban all guns if they had the chance lol
PS suggesting that the repubs are pro2a is hilarious.
Oh no not at all, just that there are some. If I have to own a minority position, so do you.
Or we could converse in good faith and look at what the policy directions actually are.
This is the issue, I'm not here defending the repubs, and you should know that. They're shit for gun rights, they use it as a wedge issue to get single issue voters to vote for them. Hence why my statement that the dems should drop gun control.
I've provided you sources, would you like me to show actual laws on the books from dems in deep blue cities/states that are doing the death by 1000 cuts way? They might not be able to repeal the 2nd but they're damn sure trying to make it impossible to own a firearm.
Dude if you had a smoking gun we'd have seen it by now. All you have is inference and FUD.
You sound like every republican out there. "Nuh uh, that doesn't count"... that's what you're doing right now. Completely downplaying that more than a 3rd of democrats want the 2nd repealed....but sure you keep thinking otherwise.
And it's still not party policy because a super majority don't want it. Weird how that works in a democracy.
Cool, that still wasn't what we're were discussing...