this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2025
0 points (NaN% liked)
Progressive Politics
2927 readers
21 users here now
Welcome to Progressive Politics! A place for news updates and political discussion from a left perspective. Conservatives and centrists are welcome just try and keep it civil :)
(Sidebar still a work in progress post recommendations if you have them such as reading lists)
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/majority-israelis-support-expulsion-palestinians-gaza-poll
Yeah, they live in a giant fascist concentration camp... it's like interviewing North Koreans. They can get hurt, beat up
Why do people move there, then? They have a democracy. I think it's more like living in the US where we elect our fascists. You don't see South Koreans clamoring to support NK nor immigrating there.
Plenty of Israelis do not support the war and want a quick resolution. Then there are the fascists and fanatics that have been displacing Palestinians and settling territory for years prior. Complex for sure, but a concentration camp it is not.
Because they flew them there for eugenicist decades long experiments. Ghilisaine Maxwell's dad is a notable example, i can give you a link about him doing that (flying Eastern European teens to Israel). The anti-Jewish hate was so severe they paid for Jews to be flown out of Europe and other countries to be basically imprisoned there. Many Jews now cannot escape. They are gaslighted about it and told it is a holy place they should visit and live at, but a lot of them know the truth and refuse to set foot in the place and call it evil.
And it's a great place for psychopathic wealthy poeple who can move there to buy the people stuck in the city.
There's substantial evidence Trump wasnt elected the 2nd time.
North Korea is a slave state of China and the slavery there looks different than the slavery in Israel. There's no concerted effort to get every Korean quarantined into North Korea, is there? There's no genocidal drive to harm Koreans afaik, maybe some Japanese or Chinese tensions in that direction but no actual movement.
Just like the slavery in Dubai look different to both of these, which the Philippines has extensively publicly talked about due to their women being victims of trafficking in Dubai. Dubai and Israel (and Las Vegas and any desert city) are similar in that they have no where to run to that isnt death/the desert. Like if they flee the city by foot, they can die of exposure. The desert acts better than prison walls. That's part of why the homeless tell you to never be homeless in Vegas bc you will never be able to escape. Islands can be similar to this as well, and ships and fishing likewise have slavery on them which uses the water to trap people in. Some people have been enslaved on 1 tiny fishing boat for decades.
I do think the US is a large work camp too though, yeah, but it is also where refugees have historically fled to from all over the world. I think people like Putin are mad about people escaping their grip and that's part of why America is widely hated by world leaders - we allowed rebellion against their tyranny without much consequence. That would be why China set up their own secret police stations here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1k19q0d/oc_see_how_three_billion_facebook_users_move/
https://www.nli.org.il/he/images/%20nnl_archive_al990040300950205171/NLI#$FL45875197
I can't really decipher your sources. Your claims about Israel are huge, and without evidence. There is a well documented history (and present) of Israel, but your version isn't it.
People can leave Israel. I know plenty who have. A desert might've worked as a fence before vehicles were invented, especially flying ones.
These points are all either baseless conspiracy or extreme exaggeration, perhaps to make a point, but that's not immediately clear to me.
What do you mean? Hitler himself supported it. Many Nazis and antisemetic people worldwide pushed for its creation for that purpose.
Not everyone can leave Israel, no. That's a bold claim. And they often can't leave by foot or boat without being in danger. There is slavery and poverty in Israel.
Vehicles are affected by heat. Headgaskets etc. Airspace is tightly controlled ofc, obviously.
It's simply a PoV you've never considered. No need to externalize your stress while trying to learn it.
The existence of a lower class without much social, or even physical mobility does not establish that "most" are trapped. They're no more trapped in a "work camp" than a poor American. I agree that modern capitalism is wage slavery and things are bleak for many. The poor and vulnerable are always the ones who suffer most.
e: Human trafficking happens everywhere, too. Just because some are exploited horribly doesn't mean that applies to most in Israel.
It also doesn't follow that Jews are trapped in Israel just because eugenicists and antisemites supported its creation or Jewish exodus. That's unsurprising. Zionists exist too and staunchly believe in their right and duty to live there. Many Jews and other religious travel there freely, albeit, more freely before the latest escalations in violence.
I think Palestinians are more trapped than anyone else. I consider this a lot, but without making unsourced claims or exaggerated rhetoric
My cutie pie, the existence of the lower class and poverty is literally meant to trap us there and make us desperate. Like, the people in charge with money could fix it, and they willingly and knowingly do not, because they benefit from it. That's an issue. That you are reflexively saying, 'well ofc the poor are experiencing everything you describe as slavery, that's what the poor gets" - because we've been propagandized to believe that. It isnt true, they don't deserve that, and that you recognize/identified some of the exact people I'm talking about and dismiss it is ugh
Yes, there is global slavery but no, Israel is different than America. In America, you can go live in the woods/nature due to the size. You can walk around in many places. Israel it is much harder to do that and they are surrounded by hostile nations. Idk why you'd downplay this lol, Israelis themselves would agree, it's why we send them missiles. Kidnappings happen.
The average Israeli citizen doesnt and cannot travel outside the country for the most part.
There is a difference between the loud voices we've heard controlling the narrative of Israel vs how Israel actually functions and what the individual people who are Israeli and dislike it have to say. There were Holocaust survivors who said this about Israel at the time of its creation. This isn't a new idea to anyone from that time period afaik but def new probably to you and other readers.
I never disputed that Palestinians had it worse. They are undergoing active genocide via direct violence (bombings, shootings, beatings, etc), starvation, dehydration, poisoning, exposure to the elements, rape, imprisonment... Idk if I missed any, I'm trying to recall all the deaths I know of. Most in Israel aren't experiencing that.
The leaders are not the people. The wealthy are not the people. Stop buying into their ads
Ignoring the condescension, you're using words and phrases like "work camp," "eugenics," and "slavery." I understand that slavery looks different at different times and places, but these people are no more enslaved than the majority of the current world is. It's not useful to use this language if you're not describing the typical definition, particularly if you aren't going to define the words which you are using differently. If you want to make the case that the world is effectively enslaved by monied interests and oligarchs, then I agree with you. There is a spectrum of slavery, though, and I typically reserve that word for those being bought and sold and shuttled around to build stadiums in Dubai or sex slavery.
If I told you in argument that the United States was a slave state akin to N.K., you would be right to doubt me unless I expanded that capitalism creates conditions which oppress the underclass to the degree that they are effectively enslaved, which is a different kind of oppression than N.K., but certainly a valid point! You won't get shot running over the border (if you're white, that is).
If we had established a baseline for what words you were using and why, then I doubt we'd have had much to disagree about. Though, I can't say I've seen any evidence that Trump didn't win the election mostly fair and square (if you discount voter suppression and gerrymandering and the like, that is). You also sourced a reddit thread which led to an article whose relevance I still can't quite pinpoint not least of which because it's paywalled.
Thanks for your perspective, genuinely.
Then you aren't a modern abolitionist and you are actively helping slavery by denying its existence. It's actually not me who is confused by those terms - it's you and you're projecting that. You aren't even able to say why they aren't slaves, except as a fallacious appeal ad populum - just because slavery is common globally doesn't change the term itself. Slavery isn't synonymous for "rare."
White people get shot in the US all the time and they are actively going through people's phones (including white citizens) at all customs for political messaging they dislike. White people are being put on the Palantir lists.
Oh and maybe take your own advice re: condescension or just leave out criticism of it if you're going to do it too lol.
As for evidence of election tampering, sources are in my history, but just Google the Rockland County case for a quick and dirty example. Here's someone claiming there's no election issues with 2024 and my response has several links in it- https://lemmy.world/post/32343339/18063399
The previous Reddit link was to an image of how people move across the planet. People, when slaves, are commodities to the rich. That's a rich person's MONEY moving away, to their PoV. That is part of why they don't like America, bc of the escape of enslaved people to this country from their home country.
First, I genuinely don't mean to condescend, and I don't think I've called you any pet names or anything like that. Apologies if I have. It's hard to read a charitable tone if we're disagreeing, so I get that.
I'd wager that if you say "slavery" to almost literally any westerner (or at least American), you are evoking chattel slavery. Like that in America before its civil war. Without clarifying what you mean, I don't think it's very fair to put the onus on others. Here's a definition of slavery from the dictionary:
Most people are not owned as property in any traditional sense, nor are they (all) enduring involuntary servitude. You can argue that because you need a job to survive, you're forced to work. That if you cannot easily escape your conditions, then you're trapped. This isn't the traditional definition of slavery, which is why I typically expect to see "wage slavery" or something akin to that. It's not exactly an appeal to ad populum if we're debating the definitions of words or semantics, which are only determined by a mutual acceptance and understanding.
Can you clarify whether you think a middle class American making $50,000 a year is a slave? Are the poor in nations with better welfare systems also slaves? I'm earnestly asking because I want to understand what you consider "modern" slavery and what the prerequisites are for being a "modern abolitionist."
"Work camp" evokes Russian gulags, North Korean work camps, or even Nazi death camps. When you're not referring to a literal work camp, it's hard to decipher that you mean the conditions created by capitalism without you saying so. I literally thought you meant that Israel was a gigantic work camp filled to the brim with unsuspecting Jews who were concentrated there by a global conspiracy which includes Zionists. Which, based on what I now know you mean, is more or less true, but I certainly wouldn't describe it like that if I wanted the average internet idiot to understand.
Thanks for the links about the election, I'll check them out.