314
Gel and lithium-ion tech could enable 1000-mile EV range on one charge
(interestingengineering.com)
this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
314 points (90.5% liked)
Technology
59429 readers
3270 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Or, better yet, they could provide the same range in smaller, lighter vehicles with less resource use.
Lots of surveys show one of the primary barriers to EV adoption is range anxiety. I’ve seen people trying to “educate” potential customers out of this anxiety, but it’s pissing into the wind. You’re not going to convince most people to downgrade their current ICE experience while paying the same or usually even more. I think the inflection point is above real world range for ICE. For example my 2016 Honda Civic can get about 7-800km of range on a single tank, and stops are as quick as a few minutes. This provides a lot of flexibility about where and when one stops. The range needs to account for:
The 20-40 minute charge vs five minutes for gas.
The lack of chargers relative to gas stations.
The 30% drop in range in the cold.
Our annual Austria ski trip takes about 30% longer in our Model Y than the Civic. That’s hours extra on an already very long drive, and the Y costs a lot more. That’s a big downgrade in experience. An appalling experience with a family. We won’t be buying another EV until affordable range is above 1,000km (620 miles). I know many current, former, and non-EV owners who feel the same.
There is a market for commuter cars with poor range, but primarily in rich places where owning 2-3 cars is common. These rich places have already bought EVs as they are. Most of the world relies on just one car, if they own one at all. That one car needs to perform well in all conditions.
The concerns for range anxiety are well founded too. I had to rent a car the other day, and the only thing they had available was a Tesla model 3. Aside from the issues Teslas themselves have, the 90 miles I had to travel became an immediate concern because it was in a rural area and the town I went to literally had two chargers, and they were privately owned.
The 280 miles I was quoted as range quickly became 170, despite turning off the heat, not charging my phone, using cruise control at 3MPH below the speed limit, and changing all the settings I could conceivably find to turn down my power consumption. I wound up having to beg a private owner to let me use their charger because what would normally be a simple trip became a massive chore. My other option was waking up hours early to drive to a town 40 miles away where they had a super charger and leaving from there, also just barely making it back to the rental car return.
The time to charge the Tesla on a 220v charger btw was over 5 hours from 48%. Absolutely none of my experience matched that of the advertised and it's completely turned me off electric cars until they can start fixing some of these issues.
It would be useful for electric bikes and things that you could feasibly own alongside a car and use for 90-95% of trips.
Or, here's a crazy idea, for the one week each year where you actually need the range you rent a Honda Civic and leave your EV at home.
That’s not a good solution. Renting is a terrible experience too. This is what I would have to do:
Book a rental in advance or pay horrendous rates.
Take an overpriced taxi to the rental place on the day. Uber is banned in my country.
Wait in line, then stand through the strong arm sales tactics to get me to buy the overpriced insurance. I politely decline.
Take a hundred pictures of the exterior to prove I’m delivering it in the same conditions I picked it up because I’ve been scammed too many times.
Drive back to my house, then do all the usual packing.
Gingerly drive this strange car for 12 hours there and back and pray I don’t scratch it because that’s thousands of dollars in extortionate fees.
On return, unpack the car, then give it a clean (or more fees).
Drive it back to the rental agency and argue about the level of gas in the tank and the scratches I didn’t make and the level of general cleanliness inside and out.
Take another overprice taxi back home.
I’ve rented a lot of cars in my life and they’re all bloodsucking leeches. This is not only a much worse experience than simply owning a car which suits our needs, but it’s more expensive.
Your rental experience sounds worse than any I’ve ever had. I have to rent a few times a year.
Also generally I like the idea of renting and having the rental insurance on a long road trip so if something happens then my personal car isn’t totaled or put into a body shop somewhere far away. I’ve hit a deer hours away from home before on a road trip that was WAY worse. If it had been a rental I could have just walked away saying I have insurance so your problem, I need a new car. Where as it became an ordeal of the car being in the body shop 4 hrs away, still needing a rental to get home, since it was far away couldn’t check in on it and the repairs were bad, had to get a ride to get the car, ended up having to drop it off again somewhere local to fix the bad repair job, and get another rental.
I also had range anxiety for EVs on long trips and then I remembered that experience.
Could you recommend a good rental company? Maybe I’ve been picking the wrong ones.
Honestly I shop around to an extent and look at reviews for the area. I have to fly to an airport near family and then drive another couple hundred to get to some family. I’ll admit there’s a gambit in quality of the cars, but I don’t have a preferred. And seems like because a brand in x is good doesn’t mean their station in y won’t suck. Hence just hope in reviews being a good indicator.
"Save the planet? Sure, but only if it doesn't slightly inconvenience my leisure activities or make me wait a bit longer." This mindset perfectly encapsulates why we're in such a mess: an astounding commitment to personal comfort at the expense of the planet's future. It's like saying, "I'll help fight climate change, but only if it's on my terms and doesn't affect my ski trips." Because, obviously, ensuring our convenience is far more critical than addressing a global crisis. It’s this precise “me first, planet later” attitude that’s steering us towards an ecological disaster, yet here we are....
To be fair... Electric cars have many of the same planet-damaging properties of gasoline powered ones. They're a step in the right direction and necessary for the cases where we can't replace cars, but they're still an incredibly energy-intensive means of transportation that release enormous amounts of particulate pollution from the tyres and take up huge amounts of land. When combined with other changes we've made to our built environment to accommodate cars, they also leave many people in a catch-22 where they're forced to pay hundreds of dollars every month for car ownership because we've demolished and rebuilt our cities in a way that makes not owning a car impractical.
If you already have a car with a combustion engine and it runs fine, you shouldn't just buy an EV because "it's better for the environment". If you're doing that, it's actually worse for the environment.
I'm fine with only being able to buy EVs in 10 or 20 years, once batteries are better and the vehicles are actually affordable. Until then, we need better and more hybrids.
thanksCEO of Toyota.
20-30 years lol it's cute you think society will still exist then.
Sorry, but if your argument is “here’s a shit product. It’s also more expensive, but you should still buy it because it’s marginally better for the planet,” it’s going to fail to achieve mass adoption. I care very much about environmental sustainability, but I’ve been around the sun enough times to know that the way to achieve that is with better and cheaper products. We should use technology to reduce environmental impact and improve our lives. It’s not one or the other.
So.... if the technology isn't improving your life you continue to use the one that's making everyone else's life worse? Even if you have the means to switch to the marginally less damaging one, that's marginally more annoying? Sounds like serious entitlement to me. The idea that no downgrade is acceptable is niave AF.
It depends on the cost/benefit analysis. It was part of my decision to buy a Tesla but I am deeply disappointed with the experience. It’s so bad that I want to sell it and buy another ICE. Most people aren’t willing to pay more for a significant downgrade. That’s just reality.
i guess this a pertinent example of why we've got basically zero chance of stopping climate collapse. I've no doubt your position is very much the norm. We're all required to make massive sacrifice to solve this, but very few are willing to make even small concessions)like less convenient driving practices).
Oh well it's gunna be exciting to watch the ship sink at the very least.
At least you acknowledge your shitty position. it's more than most seem to do.
I’m much more optimistic. I think battery technology will progress quickly, and as it improves, more and more people will buy EVs. I think the path forward is not to try to convince people to live worse lives. That’s a losing proposition. We should instead make our lives better and cleaner through technology.
Why would we do that? I want to be able to sit in a car for 10 hours, pee in a bottle, and eat sandwiches I prepared ahead of time. This is an excellent way to spend most of a waking day. Who wants to do something as silly as getting out to stretch?
From the article:
"Moreover, the silicon-gel electrolyte system demonstrated ion conductivity comparable to conventional batteries while achieving a remarkable 40 percent increase in energy density. This represents a significant leap forward in battery technology, offering a practical solution ready for immediate application."
So, same energy output, lower weight, similar range. Would be good if this soon becomes a drop in replacement option for older EVs that are nearing EOL on their batteries and require new ones anyway.
I would be curious if this technology would be viable in other devices as well. I'd like 40% more energy density in my cordless drill and/or laptop please.
Can't wait for carmakers to fight tooth and nail to avoid making this a possibility for aging vehicles.
I've always said that about one of my big reasons for buying an EV several years ago. By the time I'm in need of a replacement battery, it will be better in virtually every way - safer, faster to charge, higher capacity, lighter, and (potentially) cheaper. The first replacement battery might not be much of an improvement, but my 3rd might be light-years ahead.
Looking at past actions of capitalism, it is more likely that same type of batteries will be sold for older cars and the new tech batteries will be only made for newer models, unless right to repair takes off, but who knows, still I do hope for a better and more sustainable future.
Since Prius are so popular and plentiful, and now quite old, there are companies supplying newer tech Lion packs with way more capacity, or lighter weight (or both) than the original Prius packs (many with NiMH packs).
I’m on the hunt for old Prius with dead packs as we speak.
No affiliation example pack: https://electronhybridsolution.com/product/toyota-prius-2010-2015-brand-new-hybrid-battery-rebuild-kit/
If other companies do it then it is possible, would love to get extra range on my Chevy volt
Those volt/bolt battery packs are a really neat design, but pretty densely packed, especially the cooling system.
I know a lot of conversions that use the volt/bolt packs, but to put different batteries in a volt would likely take a lot of custom fabrication and probably compromises in interior or storage space.
I only hope a replacement is available for mine and that it’s not ungodly expensive.
My only regret was not buying a more popular model. There are fantastic drop-in battery upgrades for the Prius and leaf, but less popular cars like mine will probably never get upgraded
What car did you end up getting?
Ford cmax, only gets about 20 miles on the stock battery. I don't expect anyone to make a better one, and iirc Ford only sold like 1 model year with an upgraded (20%) battery.