this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2024
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Solarpunk
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Fuck solarpunk. I buy carefully, not mindlessly, based on what I'm getting and for how long, with the intent of not having to replace what I buy. So let's get that out of the way, this isn't about the merits of environmental preservation or efficient use of our resources.
I need mass media because I ENJOY PLAYING VIDEO GAMES. I don't want to live in the fucking "gay space commune", I want to live in a world that feels good to me, and you solarpunk assholes seem to say people like me who escape from reality because they've NEVER been capable of supporting themselves should start a fucking garden?!
Newsflash. I. Don't. Like. Your. "Utopia". I never will. If you ever succeed in making your idea of a future a reality, I'll burn it to the fucking ground as my revenge on you bastards. I hate your idea because all it does is change how I am oppressed as a disabled adult to how I was oppressed as a special needs child illegally taken from my parents by a corrupt mental health system.
I'm a shut-in, with untreated health issues, someone who partakes in escapism, and even someone who likes the idea of programming but can't really do much (I tinkered on rendering polygons from text input last September and didn't even finish it enough to be usable for me).
I haven't seen much solarpunk but I've never thought to myself that it'd be worse for me. If I existed in an environment like that (particularly from birth or at least for a long time) I don't think I'd be the same escapist shut-in. I could see open-source games still existing, and maybe programming being better even if people are less likely to have videogames as their most common activity. I've taken care of already-growing plants before, but it seems to me like a lax solarpunk environment would offer more options/opportunity than employment currently offers. Probably actual opportunity to travel, too.
Even carrying over my current mindset and (lack of) capability, I can't see a solarpunk environment being even half as restricted as my experience now. I mean the whole idea is better community and technology used to help people (not strictly for money) so it seems to me you wouldn't be required to garden.
To be fair, it seems like I may have had bad luck in the first three solarpunk works I ever experienced. My issue against the whole idea is "this is a society that can no longer afford to value non-practical pursuits, it is the future we are headed towards, therefore our present society can no longer afford to value non-practical pursuits" that was somehow in all three solarpunk works I encountered.
The three in question were Girl in Wave: Wave in Girl, the Necroverse by "RichM", and a story that a fair-weather friend wrote that I no longer have a copy of that showed a dystopian cybersolarpunk hybrid where "Covid-19 has ended the modern age and now everything is powered by wind turbines because most of us are dead".
As a result of such bad luck, I may have overestimated how central that theme of "self-sufficiency or die" is to the genre.
No one is talking about you, mass media and consumerism has nothing to do with anything you described. Video games as a whole does not equal consumerism or mass media. Micro transactions and other terrible patterns do.
When was the last time you saw a video game in a solarpunk story?
Murder in the tool library
I didn’t even think there were serious solar punk stories, and even if so, aren’t all of them like technological utopias? Why would entertainment ie video games be gone from them? Even if they aren’t the focus (which makes sense) what reason would a solar punk society have to do away with video games?
@TeryVeneno I can't imagine a solarpunk universe *without* games honestly. In my head-cannon they're a vital part of education.
Agreed, it seems really odd for any such society to do away with something so beloved
Read "Project Hieroglyph" and the way one of its "optimistic" stories ("Girl in Wave: Wave in Girl") shows a multiplayer superhero game and the main character hates it. That's not how mental illness works, computers used to be GOOD for providing social contact. That's not education, that's "fix yourself".
I am not broken. I am unhappy because I don't want to live in a world where I face reality, whether that's "IRL" or "social media". You know why I like the 4th Matrix movie? It reminds us that this image isn't what the world provides, it's what the Matrix - real life - forces us to work towards. The Matrix isn't just the fake world, it's the fake world on top of a real one and the real escape is to change, not break, the system that binds us because there is nothing in the real but vast lifeless desert. Mars, the Moon... Dead rocks. There is no evidence of an afterlife nor any point to "accepting" a secular life you hate because you will still hate it and "scientific evidence only" doesn't fix anything or change who you are.
Also are you ok? I find it rather odd to be this intensely invested about what is generally a fairly niche community in solarpunk. Not that the mission and ideology aren’t worth being passionate about, but I mean we are talking about video games and green societies nothing crazy.
Mainly I'm a sci-fi author who hates the genre because almost everyone else wants it to be true and I'm the only one saying "it would literally be like the world is a prison to me" only to get the response "you're the only one not allowed to be happy, suffer so normal people are all equal".
Again I’m really not sure where this is coming from since the majority of solarpunk people I’ve talked to do not espouse the view you are describing. But in the interest of fairness; why would solarpunk which only aims to create a fair, renewable energy based, democratic post scarcity society focused on human happiness be a prison to you?
Mainly because, at least as far as I've seen, solarpunk societies requires "taking responsibility for your survival into your own hands" which I am mentally incapable of doing, and not from lazyness or lack of effort. Trust me, if I could hold a job I wouldn't be able to afford to not be working right now. I might have a mild form of oppositional defiant disorder or a bad case of PTSD, but when someone is a jerk to me I take it personally and hold grudges, making working with people who give me orders or take orders from me essentially like ordering a cat to herd sheep.
I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree, I think solarpunk societies are focused on community and not on "taking responsibility for your survival into your own hands". That view is for people trying to run away from others. Generally solarpunk is just for people who want to build a more environmentally conscious society, not one that abandons people. In your case specifically, I think a solarpunk society would actually benefit you greatly.
Mainly my issue is that I am simply not interested in nature and solarpunk works I've personally viewed have - at least by chance - been extremely anti-urbanist and anti-disability the first three times.
I have no issue with the environment being protected, only with valuing it at the expense of someone whose only place to be themselves used to be online. That isn't even a "me" thing, it's a "this work doesn't necessarily need a token disabled person, but you should design it so that disabled people will still be just as if not more able to function without being forced to make social connections IRL or on centralized social media or even (for now) federated social media" thing. The reason disabled people fantasize about VR worlds with superpowers is because if we had that power but were still ourselves, we'd feel like equals rather than "superior" because we'd have something people value us for.
I think the fediverse is a mistake. I shouldn't be here. You might think that just because I prefer FOSS that I would promote it, but it's been almost a year and Lemmy/etc. are a bigger cesspool than reddit. Maybe Web³ is right, as far as VR is concerned. People who do hate reality are on whatever fledgeling metaverse platform they're on because the fediverse will never be like golden age reddit. We finished the Web in 2D and it's a corporate shithole. Time to move to a greener pasture...
Reading this, I think most of the disparity in our views comes from where our view of solarpunk comes from as well as opinion toward nature. I have never engaged with any solarpunk works simply cause I never thought of them as relevant to the overall concept, I’ve only ever engaged with people.
And people as far as I am aware are in a sense anti-urbanist but not anti-cities, mostly just car infrastructure and other urban-specific environmentally hostile additions. In particular many of these individuals actually care a great deal about accessibility and are with greater frequency than other groups I’ve seen disabled themselves. I usually prefer to actually talk to people rather than refer to works unless those individuals specifically refer me to those works as representative. Otherwise you’re being unfair.
Also could you give examples of those works being anti-accessibility? It may be worth bringing up accessibility in this lemmy community in a separate post. Also can’t say I agree with the fediverse take, this place has been nothing but nice to me.
The issue is mostly the type of disability. You have to realize mental disability is not visible unless you know what to look for and even then you're dealing with some strange and often self-hated traits. So while physical disability is accounted for, mental illness and especially mental trauma (abandonment issues, PTSD in my case) are simply not even recognized as existing.
In most solarpunk I've seen, the issue of permanent differences in how a person functions is simply never addressed, and it feels like a gentrification of the problem. "Maybe we should push the mentally-handicapped somewhere else!"
It hurts even more when you get the handicap after you're born. Most mental issues are genetic and so they have no reference point. I didn't ask to be fucking beaten by a foster father who smoked in the house and refused to be questioned. I didn't ask or deserve to be stolen from my family by corrupt government officials. I didn't ask to be beaten by a bully so hard that he went to juvie for it and I was bedridden for a month. If you want to improve life, do it for people who have less than you without lowering anyone's standard of living. Otherwise you're asking for a world I cannot live in because I am a permanently-scarred psyche and I cannot support myself nor function in a community.
Don't get me wrong, inclusivity is bullshit. I only ask for a future I can rely on machines in, not one in which I would be doomed to die. I can see how being exposed to solarpunk via people first might make that something you didn't expect at least.
Damn, I’m sorry all that happened to you, I wish you the best in your life going forward. And I do have to say I don’t think anyone who is into solarpunk thinks those with mental disability should just be pushed aside and discarded. That would be almost antithetical to a concept so focused on improving the human condition.
That said, I could see where an emphasis on nature more in the goals could lead to people suggesting they want to take away the things you hold dear. However, I don’t think that’s the majority opinion of people into solarpunk nor do I believe you would be unable rely on machines in a solarpunk society. The whole goal of solarpunk is environmentally conscious technology not no technology. In fact I think most solarpunks would love a future that has the technology you would want. In other words I think your goals are in alignment if not complete agreement.
I’ll definitely have to give that a read, though some quick reading of opinions about that work are fairly mixed.
Also no one has said you’re broken or that you need to face reality. The whole point of solarpunk is that will be no world to face unless we take action. And none of that has anything to do with video games or anything you have described.
To be fair, I'm aware you're correct, it's a shitty book with very little actual optimism. It's not alone though, aside from the Necroverse I also have issue with the general attitude of solarpunk because it proposes that humans can't have a genuine affinity for a digital existence.
"You don't have to upload if you don't want to, and I will march with you against the singularity to defend that. March against me, though, and I will not be subject to your worldview willingly." I don't actually believe the singularity is likely, technology doesn't work that way, but that point still stands. Solarpunk demands you sacrifice what you have for "the greater good" even if you have very little to begin with.
Imagine if the evil cyberpunk megacorp, or the steampunk empress, or the dieselpunk dictatorship, or the biopunk megacorp, told you up-front what the costs really are. Nobody would buy into their machinations. Solarpunk tells you "You want satisfaction? Run away to the middle of nowhere and pretend electronics can be made at 1nm scale without semiconductor factories and never play with your tech toys ever again." and doesn't seem to care that outliers like me will say "Actually, I am satisfied. I'm angry because you want to take that away."
Scratch that. It doesn't have to care. "If everyone but the corner cases wants it, we can FORCE it to happen. Just like the conservatives did with cyberpunk." It learned, so to speak, what the Social Media Dystopia did to win. It bought an election of an ideology, because without the popular upvote a corporation can't become powerful in a world with online criticism. I'm trying to kill an idea before that idea truly becomes an issue, by pointing out that solarpunk is still dystopian.
Simple. Because most solarpunk is written by people who hate technology corporations.
To be fair, big tech is evil. Doesn't change my point.
All video games are made by technology corporations! Except for Open TTD of course.
Asshole, I never said that. I'm well aware TTD was originally a commercial product, that's my entire point. You can't make games for free, and yes, I value video games more than continued lifespan because art allows me to ignore a reality I despise for being defined by everyone else.
You don't have the right to fucking judge me for the tiny little quirk of liking a game, I only mentioned it because it was mildly relevant.
Actually, I believe you can make games for free to consumers, and I believe systems inspired by solarpunk would, if anything, do a better job of encouraging this over our current political system. Art, including video games, doesn't just disappear in solarpunk societies.
I'm not judging you for liking a game, I never said anything of the sort, lol. Although I find it hard not to judge you if you just bark insults.
Um, but the majority of video games are not made by big tech? What is your point? Indie games are usually just better overall anyway. I’m really failing to see why any solarpunk society would stop people from making video games
Because solarpunk writers are rarely, if ever, gamers. Gamers are a niche subculture in the solarpunk works I've seen and as you're seeing, people in the solarpunk community seem to like it that way.
My confusion continues to compound. Many of the people in this thread have zero issue with video games or actually play them. I really gotta see a source for
Explain why then, despite someone important mentioning video games occurs in the Necroverse (Transhumanist Cyberjock/Solarpunk story by "RichM90071"), no games being played are EVER shown.
I think that’s just cause video games are not great entertainment for grander story beats. They’re kinda like knitting or watching tv, something you do in your off time to relax or get away but not really flashy enough like gambling or an opera house to be featured.
Cool story, bro.
Bro, what does any of this have to do with solarpunk?
Just normal stuff...
So you think hurting people to make things the way you want them is acceptable? Because of video games? You are a dangerous man child (or maybe just a child).
You build my dystopia, you're imprisoning me. I am a cornered animal, do not fuck with me.
Ah confirmation.
Confirmation indeed. It's really too much to fucking ask that you NOT build another fucking prison? You, not me, are the sociopath. At least I reserve my angry rampage for if you succeed.
You judge me for liking what I like? You are literally trying to control my life by redefining society, and no, I'm not some rich skullfucker nor do I think people aren't entitled to the same basic level of comfort I enjoy regardless of race, gender, eromantic orientation or anything else; they may not have it, but if you wanted real equality then you NEED to uplift people's minimum living standard.
Apparently you care more about organic produce and trees than children or the homeless.
Who's talking about building a prison? You've imagined an enemy in solarpunk that has nothing to do with solarpunk and are getting upset at an internet stranger that has made no claims about wanting to stop you from playing video games.
You'll understand when your 13.
Then don't build it and we're fine. I'm angry because I'm disabled and Solarpunk is usually Ableist yet everyone is obsessed with social media detox and lumping all technologies in with it.
The solarpunk you've imagined in your head is ableist. Solarpunk is but an aesthetic. Don't assume so much and try to understand more nuance.
How do I live the life I want to live in a setting that tells me I "don't really enjoy this, you're just brainwashed by capitalism" over and over? By fighting back.
You and the aesthetic (idea) you follow are not powerless and you desire a world I am excluded from, purely because the part of my life I enjoy most (the fulfilment of escapism) doesn't fit into that worldview. I am probably not going to change anything, but so be it I wanted my position to be clear. You propose taking away a life(style) that I enjoy, and I want to point out that is what you're proposing. I cannot hold a job, I have issues which are permanent and pervasive that exclude any existence in a community-focused world and if solarpunk will not accommodate that then I will not accommodate it. I can't kill an idea, nobody can, but maybe I can get people to realise that solarpunk is not about only good improvements, it has a dark side and that dark side is that there are innocent people who fall through the cracks when only "the greater good" is considered.
First I'll say I can't speak for others claiming to be "solarpunk", nobody owns this word. The following are my opinions of solarpunk.
Solarpunk isn't about forcing everyone to live within the aesthetic. Because solarpunk is an aesthetic it manifests mostly in art, but just because an element is not common in solarpunk art doesn't mean it's not welcome in what one might call a "solarpunk world".
You don't see goths wearing all black in solarpunk art either, that doesn't mean solarpunks want to ban goths. You are into escapism, that doesn't really lend itself to depictions of solarpunk art. Solarpunk art is about promoting some ideals, escapism (while not excluded) isn't one of those so why would it be included in the art?
If there is such a thing as a solarpunk ideology, it would be akin to anarcho-communism. Solarpunk/Anarcho-communism is not about exclusion. It's not about forcing everyone to sing kum ba ya or GTFO. A community based world isn't about forcing social interaction, it's about society being driven by the needs of the community rather than the needs of a wealthy owner class, AND YOU ARE PART OF THAT COMMUNITY JUST AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE.
In the solarpunk world I want, you don't have to "earn a living", you're a human and inherently valueable. A solarpunk world will have better video games because they'd be made for the love of the game, not for profit motive.
If there is something one wants that necessitates harming others to produce or acquire and they view themselves as entitled to it at the expense of others then that is not an innocent person falling through the cracks.
This is a Wendy's