Gadg8eer

Then give me evidence that the cops I've met would ignore and lie to defend corrupt cops, and I'll budge further. Otherwise, you can't force someone to agree with you, as much as I hate that.

There are better cases, that I agree on.

This is going too far, though. You don't have to keep hammering like you can force me to do whatever serves your viewpoint above all others. Public conversation is about actually improving things, and I literally can't drive a car or buy a bus ticket (and for reasons unrelated to money, politics and the topic at hand). If you want change, I have less social pull than you and I can accept being argued against, but I will not be forced to change just because every fucker on the internet has to have everyone else be part of their echo chamber.

All I can say is, would this have ended there in your country? Because it didn't here. There are consequences to actions here. That is my point when I say it is "different" here. Most crimes get punished by judges fairly and if not then afaik by external investigation teams.

There's something to know about legal systems. An honest judge will acquit any criminal, no matter how heinous-looking and obviously guilty, if the evidence is gathered by corrupt cops or even with incorrect procedure.

Why is that honest? Because otherwise the criminal hasn't received due process. You need warrants. You need to ensure evidence isn't tampered with. And the moment you allow police corruption to take root in plain sight, you as a judge have betrayed justice in ways that a mere criminal or even hardened crime lord will inevitably be unable to. A criminal can commit a crime, but a cop can make law meaningless.

There are bastard cops. That cannot be covered in blanket statements about police protocol. Different places do things differently, and it works with varying degrees of success. I don't think all American cops are evil, but yes, the vast majority are. I don't have as much evidence against the RCMP, if you think otherwise because you do have evidence, I won't stop you from protesting or demanding action. I just have no reason to try because my ability to affect change is less than the average person and I do not have personal experiences that would justify it.

There's a reason TV isn't 100% accurate, but I'll give you a take. Lazy? Sometimes. Also underfunded. We are a country with a land area a little bit bigger than yours (assuming you're an American) with a population of 10% that of the US. They're spread very thin, sometimes a crime happens and it's not serious enough to solve because you'd need DNA evidence and it's petty theft (or, far worse, something like embezzlement).

Incompetent? Not that I've encountered, but I won't discount it. That can never be discounted, no one is perfect.

Instead I propose their weakness is trust in legislation and especially political leadership. Bill C-11, the internet censorship bill, scares me. I am not stupid enough to think the RCMP couldn't become an authoritarian nightmare at the behest of a corrupt government or puppet leaders.

Because I don't live where you live. And no, I'm not rich. I live with my parents and brother, our house is only paid for because my parents are in their 70s and though we have no mortgage, we do have bills and taxes and we pay in a low income tax bracket because we are actually in that bracket instead of fucking lawyer loophole bullshit.

My parent's house was paid for by selling our old house. They bought their old house 25 years earlier. That house had a 25 year mortgage. I get it, that's more fortunate than most. That's why I'm saying "If you weren't that lucky, I will defend you" and not "just ask for an interest-free million dollar loan". It's also far less common in the US to have a paid-for home in a safe neighbourhood.

Danger from police is always possible, I am wary of them. All I know is, I can't always trust my emotions and all it would take to destroy me is one corrupt cop, so I damn well know that I'm satisfied with the fact that the RCMP don't get to self-investigate corruption.

I've literally been a victim of the mental health system and I still recognize that was doctors and nurses and orderlies that did that to me.

That's not disputing your point, only providing counterargument with context. Those cops in particular should be fired, and are actually bastards. If there was any corruption by police officers I've interacted with, I was not aware at any point. Doesn't mean this is that surprising, it's not like reality runs on video game rules that somehow make things fair.

Upvoted because it's better thought out than anything I can post.

If you're going to argue in bad faith, why should I answer that?

tl;dr: Fuck off with that "you're wrong and you're not allowed to stop being wrong by acknowledging flaws in your own argument" bullshit.

If an RCMP officer abuses someone, that officer loses my trust. If the entire RCMP is doing so regularly, and getting away with it, and none of them care, the organization loses my trust.

I am not blind to it. I understand why it's been happening; people in Eastern Canada have control over our government, and especially wealthy shitbags whose lineage - while not bad in itself - links them to British aristocracy and thus makes them usually racist. They put cops here on reservations specifically to oppress and it's fucking awful.

That doesn't mean the cops I've encountered would shoot a native kid or an autistic kid or any kid. That doesn't mean the cops who have had to put up with me and the psychiatric malpractice that made me legitimately dangerous to myself and others are corrupt for taking me to a hospital instead of jail, or for tasering me when I had intent to stab myself instead of shooting me.

This shooting was not an accident. American police have always had corruption issues, under Trump it's now off its' leash.

I get it, native kids being in danger is NOT acceptable. In Ontario, the problem is so bad that McGill University literally buried dead "students" there. That was in the 90s, disturbingly recent.

If that happened where I live today, in the part of Canada I live in, it would be reported to the police obviously, but the important part is that they wouldn't investigate themselves. External review of corruption is mandatory here.

Due to the aforementioned asshats in Ottawa, corruption among Reservation police is not always because of RCMP corruption, but the same reason as in the US: They have a local police force made up of scumbags seeking power. City and reservation police departments are not part of the RCMP, and are apparently allowed to investigate themselves which is obviously just so they can continue being corrupt.

I know the FBI is currently ruined by Adolf Twittler, but did you trust the FBI more than local police? The FBI are federal police. So is the RCMP. Not saying that's necessarily why they seem good, only that local police need external review just as much as the FBI and RCMP do. The RCMP has it, and iirc so does the FBI. Mandating external review is hard to do without federal backing, and here we were lucky that the federal government itself (AFAIK) is not what investigates RCMP corruption. Ideally, it needs to be an external nonprofit organization.

This isn't denial. It's accepting new input. I don't disbelieve your argument. I argue that discrimination by job doesn't help unless you are in physical danger from corrupt police, which applies in the US because there was concerted effort to rely on "self-policing".

Natives shouldn't have to fear police. I hope that's what you want to hear, because I am in no position to fix that. Otherwise, recognize at the very least that our population is very diverse: We have more Asian immigrants (and descendants) now than any other race in Canada, we have descendents of African-Americans, we have Natives like the Salish, Inuit and Iroquois, we have Europeans, we have people from Latin America. That alone is not what I'm focusing on, because diversity itself means nothing.

What I'm trying to say is, I don't fear a cop. If I put myself between a 10 year old boy or girl from native heritage (or any other) and an arrogant cop and get shot, that would bring the full force of an investigation into it. If it wouldn't happen for the kid alone, a grown man with passably white skin dying to protect a stranger's child will make it happen. I think this would hold true for a teenager as well, and if it doesn't, I die not to be a martyr for my country, but to be a martyr for fixing my country.

That is something I feel is much more likely here than the US currently. We have one problem with our cops, and we don't approve but more importantly we are willing (and able, not saying it's easy) to protect each other. This isn't an attack on you, it's a criticism of what has led your country to its' current problems...

A lot of police policy in the US was created to oppress everyone who wasn't white at any cost, including the legal structure. That's the problem. Not just Jim Crow Sunset laws, the entire "self-policing" lie.

Your government has given badges and authority to a bunch of thugs, across their empire. Our government is not perfect, it has racist assholes who seem to think making millions per year is more important than respecting who we got this land from.

I can't deny that because I knew before you posted, I chose to exclude it to argue in good faith, because I'm sick of partisan bullshit. I choose to now acknowledge it in good faith. Do not continue discussing this unless you will do so in good faith.

Even "backpedaling" acknowledges a flaw in existing knowledge. I won't attack you if you do, but you have argued against me for it and that is a bad faith argument.

No, I acknowledge no system is perfect and some of them are assigned specifically to places where natives commonly live by a bunch of suits in Ottawa. Here, it's a political issue, not a policing issue. That doesn't excuse anything, abusive RCMP officers are scum as you say, but that doesn't mean that cops are universally or inherently evil.

In the US, absolutely. Fortunately it doesn't have to be that way, however I do not think there is any coming back from the police being the direct successors of slave patrols. Best for the states to just separate into several nations and eventually form some sort of EU-like economic pact, otherwise North America will be the new Africa.

Time we started making anti-money instead. The more you invest per period of time, the less privileges and opportunities you are allowed depending on how much anti-money you're saddled with until you die.

Oh, you don't like that this penalizes tall poppies? I am a tall poppy. The rich cut ME off. Why? Because I was never rich but I had skill and talent and I hate people who abuse authority. Because the rich don't care about tall poppies, they care only about THEIR legacy. Fuck the shears and the gardener, everyone.