Liberals will do any amount of mental gymnastics to point the finger at anyone but themselves.
Harris lost Michigan by less people than voted Uncommitted during the primaries. They might be a "fringe group," but Harris sure could've used some of their votes, don't you think?
A reasonable person understands running the same strategy over and over and expecting different results is literally the definition of insanity.
But it's perfectly ok for the DNC to trot out nothing but the status quo for their voters? After over a decade, they can't promise anything beyond "not fascism" to their voters and the rest of the population?
And I already answered you: Harris needed to convince voters to vot for her, or against Trump. That's a politicians job during a campaign, and she failed miserably.
So now explain to me why the average voter has to keep swallowing a shit sandwich, but the political party that keeps failing using the same failed strategy, why don't they have to change? Why is it so unreasonable for them to adopt more popular, progressive policies that voters actually want?
I'll wait, you can go ahead and explain that.
I voted for Harris. Roughly 60% of American voters who are eligible don't vote.
Harris needed to convince those voters that she was either worth voting for, or Trump was worth voting against.
She failed to convince them of either, so they stayed home, along with 14 million Dem voters she failed to convince to vote blue like they did in 2020.
Do you think it accounted for the 14 million Dem voters who voted in 2020 but stayed home in 2024?
I doubt it.
DNC Leadership: Is "left" your people's way of saying "status quo?"
But to absolve 80 million voters (a second time) by saying "theyre just angry you see, they dont know any better where to direct this anger to" is unfair.
Ah, see, the general vibe on Lemmy has been to criticize and shame people who didn't vote, and that's where I thought your debate was coming from. I cast no blame on anyone who either didn't vote or voted third party.
If we're talking the 80 million who voted for Trump a second time? Oh yeah, absolutely, fair game on that front. The only defense I have for them, which I think is important to understand for Democrats to maybe start winning, is that they want change.
And Trump, as shitty as he and his cohorts are, showed them they can change things dramatically during the course of a single presidency. It's shitty change, and many of them don't live in reality, so I've just been discounting them entirely. But it's still observable change that usually aligns with what they want.
Biden/the Democrats have made change, but it's not... Flashy enough? It's not enough, the status quo isn't enough for the voting base they need, and they need to adjust their platform accordingly.
So yeah, if you're criticism is of those who voted for Trump, I agree completely, I'm as angry and disappointed as you are (though not surprised). I just don't think it's fair to blame non-voters and third party for the Democrats failing to convince them they're worth voting for.
If we insist on casting them in the most unfavorable light possible to everyone, we shouldn't be surprised when no one wants to vote for them and they lose. Your time would be better spent targeting the Republicans with this stuff considering they are the people who want to kill us.
They cast themselves in unfavorable light, no one forced them to behave the way they have this entire campaign, or how they've behaved towards their own supporters.
They lose, and no one votes for them, because they don't show the American populace that they'll get anything done, and they don't campaign on anything beyond the status quo.
The Democrats are going to continue to lose until they acknowledge that people would rather the system burn than be forced to hold their nose and get nothing for another 2+ years. 14 million fewer Democrats voted this year than they did in 2020, that is not a failing of the electorate, it's a failure of the party.
Voting is a two way street. You've said repeatedly that we can't have the candidate we feel we deserve, or we can't have progressive candidates, or that we can't have Palestine because XYZ, and we can't expand the Supreme Court because XYZ.
Ok, so then what are the electorate getting? We're not asking for everything, I've never once said they have to run a candidate who supports every single progressive policy, but we can have something something progressive to believe in? Instead of "stfu and vote for us and maybe we'll move a little in four years if we feel like it."
The DNC can't have their cake and eat it too. You can't ignore a large portion of the voting population but still expect them to give a fuck about you. I guarantee you Harris would have at least had a better shot if she had a few progressive policies that differed enough from Biden and actually gave Americans hope.
Instead, they just leaned back on "bUt FaScIsM," dug their heads in the sand to any compromise within the party, and then fucks like you come out blaming the electorate for "not understanding the gravity of the situation."
Cool, the political party with millions of dollars in record breaking campaign fundraising, multiple national figures with national audiences to convey their message, and multiple A-list celebrity endorsements, they don't have to understand the severity of the situation and compromise, no no, it's us, the electorate, who are to blame, and who should've, how does Lemmy keep putting it, "stfu, grow up, and vote."
Real winning slogan y'all adopted.
Obviously the Democrats would do better if they adopted a populist message.
Then why won't they? Not can't, not shouldn't, why won't they? We're not asking for fucking gold limousines for every American, we want healthcare, livable wages, and better social services.
Why is it so unreasonable for the Democratic party to consider any of these?
I want you to answer that. I want you to explain to me why it is unreasonable for a political party losing to fascism to change their party platform. Not "tHe MoVeMeNt mUsT cOmE fRoM wItHiN," I want you to explain to me why a group of grown ass adults, whose sole job is to represent their constituents, can't grow the fuck up and adopt any meaningful platform or policy that will win them elections.
If we make the Democrats look like fascists who must be protested out of a moral duty, then we've done the Republicans a favor.
They did that themselves by refusing to distance themselves from Palestine, as I have repeatedly stated, and that they made very clear to the Arab/Muslim voters multiple times in public.
Choosing not to participate in a system you don't feel represented in isn't a protest, it's aligning your vote with who best represents you and your interests. If they vote for no one, then neither candidate could successfully convince them they were worth voting for.
And continuing to act like apathetic voters are just naive and speaking to them the way you do, why would they want to support your movement? "Your feelings are wrong, and you did wrong, but I forgive you because I believe I'm morally superior for treating the Democratic party as a cult."
Give them something to hope for, and they'll probably hope again. That's the Democrats first priority, and this status quo bullshit isn't gonna cut it.
If it doesn't, let's use the Democrats to our advantage.
I don't expect them to change or learn a damn thing. It sure sounds like a lot less effort for them to shift right than it is for them to move left. And seeing as how they're too lazy to come up with a better strategy than the one they keep losing on, I'm just going to assume they'll continue to move right.
I hope not, I hope this scares them shitless so they can understand what the average American goes through on a daily fucking basis while they gamble with our lives on whims of fucking hubris. I hope some of them lose everything material in their lives, like many of their constituents are about to thanks to their arrogance and hubris.
Let's see some of these silver spoon Liberal Elite who fucking know best live on $7.25/hr with no benefits, six roommates, and the fucked up society they've gleefully left us to rot in until we're needed every election year. Maybe when they actually suffer consequences for once, they'll give a shit what Joe Smith nobody has to say about their foreign policy, or their complete lack of cohesion or progress.
Hope their lives were worth gambling on the status quo.
You have every right to be angry, but your anger is pointed at the wrong people. Just like the elite divide the masses with bullshit culture wars, the Democratic party elite want you to blame your fellow voters rather than their unpopular platform and abysmal campaign.
If you can vote, you're a fucking adult. stop acting like a fucking god damned spoiled child.
I've seen this attitude repeated ad nauseum these last few weeks, from people discussing Harris with conflicted undecided voters. And your attitude and aggression is exactly what all of them received, and yet you all wonder why people may have stayed home?
People were vocal about their complaints regarding the Democrat's platform, and they were ignored. If democracy is so important, why the fuck couldn't the Democratic party adopt more progressive policies?!
Like, apparently it's completely reasonable to expect people to do what you say with no promise of even addressing their concerns, nevermind actually addressing, but it's completely unreasonable to just choose not to participate in the system?
You're not entitled to someone's vote, regardless of the circumstances. Stop blaming your fellow countrymen and women for not feeling represented, and start screaming at the party who fucking refused to represent them.
Stop blaming your fellow Americans for the Democrats running a platform so unpopular, 14 million Democrats that voted in 2020 chose to stay home.
Stop blaming your fellow Americans for the DNC hiding Biden's mental acuity issues for well over a year, humiliating himself (and our country) on stage at his debate before hastily cramming a candidate the party didn't have a say in, and running her on policies that their constituents were vocally against.
As a trans woman, you're damn right I'm fucking terrified, and I'm fucking angry.
But my anger is at the Democratic party, who decided that spending decades appeasing the Republicans and giving the American people nothing that they've been promised, who knew the consequences of this election and decided a 2016 rerun was the only viable option, who paraded Republican after Republican across the DNC stage while snubbing Palestinian Democrats from speaking, and then sending Bill Clinton to lecture the electorate about why Israel has the right to genocide Palestine.
The Democratic party had fascism at the gates, and passed all responsibility onto their voting base instead of checks notes listened to their fucking constituents.
So don't get angry at your disillusioned and apathetic neighbor, they're a symptom of the system being unrepresentative of the people for so many years.
Direct your anger at the DNC, demand they start listening to their base, demand that they start trying to garner non-voters with popular policies instead of moving further right to appeal to moderate Republicans.
Or better yet, send them letters regularly, like I plan to do, reminding them that all of the awfulness the American people are living through is a direct result of their entitlement and hubris. Maybe throw in their that they could probably get elected if they actually listened to the American people and ran on policy that reflected what they want.
But that's probably too radical, let's just keep blaming the electorate for wanting to participate in a system that represent them, not one that runs on "Please, we promise, last time we're delaying fascism/the other guy, for realz for realz this time, we'll totally enact all the laws, just give us more money you don't have and give us four more years." But, I'm clearly not as educated and smart as the people running the DNC, I mean, I haven't lost 4 out of the last 7 elections trying to run the same playbook everytime,
They just have to run a candidate people want to vote for, not a candidate people have to vote for. But they won't, because the DNC seems to think they know what people need better than they do. And their voting results this year clearly show that...
Why'd the cookie go to the hospital?
He was feeling crummy!
What'd the envelope say to the stamp?
Stick with me, kid, we'll go places.