AceTKen

Near Kingston! Maybe I just wasn't paying attention?

I am 40 and Canadian and have lived in three provinces (Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Ontario). I have never seen bagged fucking milk.

By Nine Inch Nails. Good pull!

And I agree with nearly all of that, and I would call most of the ideology you listed Centrist or independent (which are interchangeable to me when I talk about them, frankly), but I see what you're meaning.

It doesn't mean you're the centre of current USA right and left wings, which most of the people in this thread mischaracterise them as. It means you're between two points. Which points? Talk to them and find out. Maybe it's a left-wing position but they disagree vehemently on the "How" of the situation. Maybe it's a right-wing position, but they have a non-shitty take (like I tried to show with my immigration example elsewhere).

I desperately hate the "Centrists only want to kill some of the trans people" argument some make (even in this thread). It's disingenuous, anti-intellectual, and flat-out wrong.

Again, the real and long-term solution is to make more parties viable.

(As an addendum, thanks for actually discussing and not being just a shithead like some others!)

I don't think the person was tying to win over left-wing people. They were voting the way they felt was right, which is how voting is supposed to work. They don't need to vote to make you happy, and they seemed very conflicted over it.

I personally agree that many right-wing policies cause misery. You're arguing like I'm right-wing and I am not.

That being said, I also think current left-wing policies are mostly toothless, focus on feelings over making the world better, are too easy on the wealthy, and are mostly preformative because the real solutions would alienate voters and donors alike - they seem to coast on "Let's not make things actively worse most of the time!"

I have never once voted for the right-wing party in my country (Canada). I also don't agree that any left-leaning party in my country is particularly great. If I were in the US, I would be presently voting for the Democrats, but only because they are the least bad of the two. I would also be stumping for third-party candidate viability as a solution to this.

you just ate up the rhetoric that BLM protesting was all “riots lasting for days”

It was vague on purpose. I'm not discussing a specific set of current events, merely commonly attached attitudes to events that have occurred throughout history. Police forces vs. protesters is a pretty common recurrence, no "rhetoric eating" required.

Nobody actually believes free markets are effective.

Well, if you'd like to actually discuss, they are to a limited extent. I also believe that the government should step in to break mon- du- and tri-opolies. If a bail out is required, the government should then own the business and all patents should be made public. Patent timeframes should also be restored to the original or shorter as all it's doing is stifling innovation. Some industries should be removed entirely from being for-profit. Now you go!

Centrists have been between the two

Maybe some. Centrists and independents are not a cohesive group with set ideals. Each individual has their own stance. It also doesn't mean that the views they hold are always between the two parties in power, but instead means that they fall between any two parties. As an example, I could be a Canadian Centrist between Green and NDP; I'm still a centrist. This makes ragging on the label kinda worthless because depending on the scale, most people are Centrists. I would be screaming at the top of my lungs about the fucking meteor in your example instead of wasting time on social politics. Yelling "Whataboutism" with things that important is fucking absurd when one means we're all going to die roasting in our own goddamn juices.

Trump

The dude sucks, no doubt. To me he represents the enshittification of modern politics, but... You can vote for Trump and still be centrist just like you can still have voted for Hillary and be a Centrist. It depends on what you value most and to what extent. There was a really good episode of Radiolab a few years back that discussed this. Basically, a legal US immigrant (with undocumented family members) voted Trump despite feeling that the man was disgusting and disagreeing with him on literally every single issue but one. The one issue they believed in so hard though, that it was enough to vote Trump (in that instance, their line was abortion). If you have a line that you will not cross, then that's all there is for some people. You can say they're wrong (and in that instance, I would agree with you), but they're neither stupid nor gullible.

This is another case of how more (and more varied) political candidates would help.

If someone says that they are “centrist” they are not telling you that they base all of their opinions on being in the middle of any two positions. That would be astoundingly stupid and is very much a straw-man take on the situation.

They are telling you that they agree with neither major party on everything, and find that both parties have views that they don’t agree with. It’s pretty easy to come to that conclusion because the US two-party system packs in an almost incoherent mishmash of beliefs into exactly two sides.

There is absolutely no contradiction in being for police reform, and against riots lasting for days. There is no contradiction in being for gun rights, while also wanting limits on them. There is no contradiction in wanting functional government services and universal healthcare, and thinking that free markets are effective. There is no contradiction in wanting a more balanced budget, and government services to be funded.

The idea that there are only two sides in politics is a strange delusion created by your two party system.

If you are left wing, and argue for left-wing policies in every case, that means you will also be argued with by somebody who believes political nuance and not just waving a party flag.

The right wing also shits on centrists because they think they are secretly left-wing since they argue with some of their stupider points as well.

These people are not "secretly right-wing" and just don’t have the balls to say it. That is a horrendous take no matter where you fall on the political spectrum the only serves to limit conversation.