this post was submitted on 08 Jan 2025

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Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is NOT a “vaccine skeptic.” He is antivax. Period. (sciencebasedmedicine.org)

submitted 1 week ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago

Only the best and the brightest from Donald's administration.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You know, occasionally I'm led to believe that we live in the 21st century, but then I read a quote like that and I'm reminded, nope, definitely Middle Ages still. I better go hunt some witches now.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago

They're called trans people now.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I was vaccinated as a child. Does that mean I'm dead now? Cause I could be convinced either way.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago

No, but autism is worse for these motherfuckers than death.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It's like a trolley problem. If you do nothing, an RFK shaped train will speed down the tracks and kill untold innocents (and some maga assholes). If you pull the lever to try to stop it, you'll almost certainly die, and it's possible another train will be placed on the tracks later anyway.

So I don't know what to do. I pray to saint luigi.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Ideally, as many people who try to kill that many people are stopped.

RFK specifically can't be allowed to fuck with vaccines. That isn't, like, an industry shifting around. It's worse than life and death, it's brutal, chronic illness--preventable horrendous individual suffering on a mass scale.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

Yeah we thought guardrails were in place with covid but here we are

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I would be a vaccine skeptic if i could find anything about curing viruses skeptical. Fortunately or unfortunately im not stupid.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago (2 children)

You can be a skeptic and still come to the conclusion "vaccines work with no major problems, and should be mandated widely".

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

I can also not be a skeptic and do research anyway. I have a fair amount of confidence in scientists but not governments. Nor governments understandings of science. Nor the common persons understanding. Im skeptical on all those fronts. But science. Not so much.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago

Yup, I'm a vaccine skeptic and get every pretty much every one that's offered, because it turns out they're totally worth it. But I do my research anyway because I'm not blindly injecting anything.

[+] [email protected] 37 points 1 week ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

This seems like a huge gamble if you're a pharma in the vaccine space. Existing vaccines have great economies of scale and are very reliable revenue when uptake is high and consistent. Introducing skepticism that reduces the number of people getting vaccines (since RFK lacks any nuance) is a great way to shoot yourself in the foot. The new patent vaccine would need to maintain high uptake to recoup the R&D costs.

You're also screwing a large group of billionaires to benefit a much smaller group of billionaires. Possible, but likely to make enemies.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Wow, fighting conspiracy theories with conspiracy theories?

[+] [email protected] 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

God. Damn. I'm all but certain I read that post.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I think it normalizes conspiratorial thinking. Better to teach proper critical thinking.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

The best option is that which is possible.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

How? A correct answer saves the world.

Edit: The most frustrating thing about this entire thread is that I wanted to have a conversation about implementing actual on the ground solutions to countering conspiracy theories and the response was to shut down the conversation.

In an attempt to answer my own question, maybe the solution to getting people to escape conspiracy theories is to avoid personal attacks (you’re Machiavelli) and other rhetorical devices and actually have a conversation divorced from ego about a topic.

If only there was a community for that?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

How is conspiratorial thinking helping the world right now?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

That’s a non answer. I never said conspiratorial thinking was helping the world. (However, in the example given it appears that it may have.)

What I asked was how do we implement your solution. It’s all well and good to point out problems. But if that problem is unavoidable it becomes the cost of doing business. I take your non answer to mean you don’t have one. That’s fine. I don’t either. In the example given a good result was achieved via a less than ideal way.

While we wait for the way to implement your solution I am willing to accept getting innocent children vaccinated by any means possible.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

In the example given a good result was achieved via a less than ideal way.

Machiavelli would be proud.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Can’t tell if you mean that as a good or bad thing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Generally not a compliment...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Why

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

"The ends justify the means". Machiavelli justified the use of all manner of ruthless and immoral behavior for a prince to maintain control.

I thought this was a skeptics community. It seems I was mistaken.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

So you are characterizing my comment about using any means possible to vaccinate an innocent child that is unable to speak for themselves and is at danger die due to a mentally unstable parent’s belief with ruthless and immoral behavior?

How do you characterize letting that same child die because they are not vaccinated?

Edit: typo

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I'm not gonna play this "that's not what I said, no you said that" BS.

A skeptic community should be teaching critical thinking not spreading conspiracy theories. End of.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I’m not playing anything. You can read it. You are responding to statements and arguments I am not making.

If your argument was “your comment is outside the scope of this community” than make that argument.

Be well.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago

I'm not gonna play this "that's not what I said, no you said that" BS.

A skeptic community should be teaching critical thinking not spreading conspiracy theories. End of.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Honestly, the situation we find ourselves in is because we applied your "solution" for decades while ignoring the long-term consequences of that kind of appeasement of illogical thinking.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What solution? I said I don’t have one.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

It sounded to me like you were advocating for Apytele's view to counter conspiratorial thinking by giving them more made up conspiracies that happen to align with whatever short term goal you have at the time, basically to be content with having the wrong thought process reach the correct outcome for that short term goal.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I literally asked how to make people not act that way and said it is what would save the world.

No one that responded had an answer to how to implement the “solution” of getting people to have “the right thought process.” Conspiratorial thinking isn’t new. Simply saying people should be properly educated isn’t proposing an actual solution, it’s stating the obvious.

My point was that, until there is an actionable solution to achieve that result (which we are still struggling with as a species) I don’t have an issue with fighting fire with fire.

It’s fine to propose abstract ideas. The reason we are where we are as a species is that no one is able to put them into practice.

Edit to add example:

In the example the mom is an anti vaxer. The Dr. tricks her into vaxing kid. Kid grows up and can’t reconcile mom’s crazy ideas with her contrary actions. Kids starts questioning mom’s sanity. Kid starts searching for answers. Kid joins this community on lemmy. Kid sees this conversation. Kid says that’s what happened to me. Kid abandons conspiracies.

Or we as a species could simply tell mentally ill people they are mentally ill and expect the mentally ill brain to make a non mentally ill decision.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That fits typical Republican corruption scams

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 week ago

Who goes hiking with an unvaccinated infant? His babble is almost as incoherent as Trump's.