this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2024
1 points (100.0% liked)

No Stupid Questions

35316 readers
658 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I see a lot about source codes being leaked and I'm wondering how it that you could make something like an exact replica of Super Mario Bros without the source code or how you can't take the finished product and run it back through the compilation software?

top 7 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I actually work on a C++ compiler... I think I should weigh in. The general consensus here that things are lossy is correct but perhaps non-obvious if you're not familiar with the domain.

When you compile a program you're taking the source, turning into a graph that represents every aspect of the program, and then generating some kind of IR that then gets turned into machine code.

You lose things like code comments because the machine doesn't care about the comments right off the bat.

Then you lose local variable and function parameter names because the machine doesn't care about those things.

Then you lose your class structure ... because the machine really just cares about the total size of the thing it's passing around. You can recover some of this information by looking at the functions but it's not always going to be straight forward because not every constructor initializes everything and things like unions add further complexity ... and not every memory allocation uses a constructor. You won't get any names of any data members/fields though because ... again the machine doesn't care.

So what you're left with is basically the mangled names of functions and what you can derive from how instructions access memory.

The mangled names normally tell you a lot, the namespace, the class (if any), and the argument count and types. Of course that's not guaranteed either, it's just because that's how we come up with unique stable names for the various things in your program. It could function with a bunch of UUIDs if you setup a table on the compilers side to associate everything.

But wait! There's more! The optimizer can do some really wild things in the name of speed... Including combining functions. Those constructors? Gone, now they're just some more operations in the function bodies. That function you wrote to help improve readability of your code? Gone. That function you wrote to deduplicate code? Gone. That eloquent recursive logic you wrote? Gone, now it's the moral equivalent of a giant mess of goto statements. That template code that makes use of dozens of instantiated functions? Those functions are gone now too; instead it's all the instantiated logic puked out into one giant function. That piece of logic computing a value? Well the compiler figured out it's always 27, so the logic to compute it? Gone.

Now all of that stuff doesn't happen every time, particularly not all of those things are always possible optimizations or good optimizations ... But you can see how incredibly difficult it is to reconstruct a program once it's been compiled and gone through optimization. There's a very low chance if you do reconstruct it, that it will look anything like what you started with.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Just wait until you see the crazy optimizers for embedded systems. They take the complete code of a system into consideration, and, in a number of compile passes, reuses code snippets from app, libraries, and OS layer to create one big tangled mess that is hard to follow even if you have the source code...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The same reason you can't unbake a cake I'd imagine.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Has the cake been in closed in an airtight container since it was done baking?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago

Potentially, yes, if the answer is yes

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The long answer involves a lot of technical jargon, but the short answer is that the compilation process turns high level source code into something that the machine can read, and that process usually drops a lot of unneeded data and does some low-level optimization to make things more efficient during actual processing.

One can use a decompiler to take that machine code and attempt to turn it back into something human readable, but will usually be missing data on variable names, function calls, comments, etc. and include compiler-added optimizations which makes it nearly impossible to reconstruct the original code

It's sort of the code equivalent of putting a sentence into Google translate and then immediately translating it back to the original. You often end up with differences in word choice that give you a good general idea of intent, but it's impossible to know exactly which words were in the original sentence.