this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2024
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Most of the misinformation communities are easy to spot, but [email protected] falls into a slightly different category, and it presents itself in an unusual way. It seems like one of the main mods flavors his postings with a consistent sprinkling of posts that say that Europe not buying fossil fuels from Russia is a catastrophe for Europe, and they must reverse course as soon as possible and stop trying to depend on renewable energy, since it doesn't work.

Here are some examples from a most recent post. It's far from the only post that includes this general shape and character, but it's particularly on the nose. From https://lemm.ee/post/49292464:

That will leave Europe with expensive LNG from Qatar and the US, as well as some pipeline gas from Norway and through Turkiye, which is Russian gas in a roundabout, third-party way. As always: higher complexity comes at a higher price — a direct consequence of the EU’s economic war on its largest energy supplier.

With the predictable unpredictability of wind and solar, however, and with a massive reliance on natural gas fired power plants to balance electricity demand, Europe has just saw the fastest drop in natural gas storage in years. Yes, the weather was cold in the past couple of weeks, but it wasn’t nearly as cold as it could get in the dead of winter. Wind on the other hand stopped blowing, which not only resulted in lower electricity generation from wind turbines, but also in thicker clouds and more persistent fog… Leading to a much diminished solar power generation. Welcome to the good old Dunkelflaute (or the dark doldrums) so common this time of year, and by the way sometimes throughout the entire winter... Who could have thought that “renewables” produce much less electricity during wintertime…?

Whenever a large solar farm returns production it sends a shock wave through the grid, damaging sensitive equipment nearby. Similarly, when a cloud suddenly blocks the Sun a micro-blackout could occur (lasting a few milliseconds) till back up capacity comes online. These fluctuations in the supply of electricity has forced many companies with sensitive manufacturing equipment to install surge protectors and uninterruptible power supply units costing tens or hundreds of thousands of Euros (depending on size) or outright buying a natural gas powered generation unit to produce their own stable electricity supply.

In the meantime, and just for the record, the IMF has just named Russia the 4th largest economy of the world, surpassing Japan and Germany; after the World Bank classified it as a high income country. Despite all protestations, sanctions actually helped Russia rein in its worst oligarchs and encouraged investments to replace lost imports. Contrary to what Europe’s ruling elite had in mind, their policy has lead to a huge economic boom in Russia, driven by internal consumption and powered by an abundant supply of fossil fuels.

I asked the mod about what was up with this, on an earlier post, and they didn't seem to have much of a response other than an appeal to authority. (https://lemm.ee/post/49069993)

Obviously, I could be right or wrong, and no one's obligated to answer my questions about anything, but at that point I was looking at it as "You may be unintentionally posting misinformation" and warning the person, and their response didn't line up for me with someone who is innocently posting informative content because they believe it to be true.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I agree that it's odd that a collapse community (presumably pro-environment?) post would argue for using more fossil fuels instead of renewables, but looking at it from a strictly economic perspective, my understanding is that Europe not buying natural gas from Russia is indeed severely affecting their economy.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That part is completely accurate, yes. What I was referring to was more the idea that they need to go back to buying Russian fuel, because solar panels are destroying their electrical grid, and the Russian economy is doing great because sanctions actually helped it enormously. That, and also the mod's total disinterest in discussing the topic when I pointed out some of the suspect elements of the stuff he was posting.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What I was referring to was more the idea that they need to go back to buying Russian fuel, because solar panels are destroying their electrical grid, and the Russian economy is doing great because sanctions actually helped it enormously.

But from what I understand, those things you listed are all at least partly true, from a strictly economic perspective. I agree that it's a poorly thought-out opinion from an environmental / climate perspective though.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Whenever a large solar farm returns production it sends a shock wave through the grid, damaging sensitive equipment nearby. Similarly, when a cloud suddenly blocks the Sun a micro-blackout could occur (lasting a few milliseconds) till back up capacity comes online. These fluctuations in the supply of electricity has forced many companies with sensitive manufacturing equipment to install surge protectors and uninterruptible power supply units costing tens or hundreds of thousands of Euros (depending on size) or outright buying a natural gas powered generation unit to produce their own stable electricity supply.

That's not "at least partly true." It's the steamingest pile of pure bullshit I've seen all week. I don't know why you would seize on some vaguely half-true things near the beginning of the article to take the jump of claiming that the pants-on-fire part of it is "at least partly true."

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I was referring to your list I quoted in general, not that paragraph from the original post. That paragraph seems to make some sloppy claims without providing evidence, but the general opinion they're expressing doesn't seem completely out of the question to me. I had read before that Germany was not doing their green energy transition right and it was causing them to have to increase coal burning, which I'm sure everyone can agree is a bad thing. I did a quick search and here's what appears to be a decent article about the issues with Germany's approach to green energy: https://www.bakerinstitute.org/research/so-much-german-efficiency-warning-green-policy-aspirations

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

"Sloppy claims without providing evidence"? "The general opinion they're expressing"?

Lol, okay. You're welcome to your opinion.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago

Thanks for the heads up

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

This is the the spinoff community where the mods straight up left because they as the near singular uploaders got pushback for some of the content they were sharing was false or problematic and they made such a tantrum they basically got thrown out and told everyone else that we needed to follow them because they were what's best for community?

Yeah I wouldn't exactly trust them and I didn't hold much weight to their posts previously either. A lot of blog opinion posts masquerading as intelligent discussion.

This is also the same group that prior to the migration I saw saying that the earth had a hard 1 billion human cap and would often say that we needed to reduce our population down to that amount naturally or by not protecting people during catastrophe and even worse if you pushed them a little on it they would say 3rd world countries could give up the most people as the most polluting and fastest growing countries they should all take their different colored skin and die to leave more space for the rest of them.

TL;DR:
Yeah I would stay clear of that place. Honestly all the "collapse" adjacent communities on Lemmy are pretty conspiracy first and deeply problematic wish fulfilment at best, too desperately searching for the end of their suffering through the suffering of others

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago

nonsense. Link sources to demonstrate you aren't just making stuff up

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I notice the nihilism is always selectively applied, too.

It's never the case that Russia's economy is going to be affected in the upcoming global collapse. Russia is always doing great. It's every other country that's so hopelessly on a death-course that there's no point in even reversing anything, and so they might as well go back to buying Russian oil again, to stave off the inevitable before they all die.

Also, food crops are never a big issue. Sustainability of energy, specifically fossil fuel energy, is a huge issue underpinning the economy. But having stuff to eat isn't important, and no particular issues might arise that anyone might want to pay attention to as regards it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago

Contrapoints: "'That's what happens when the snowflake / shitpost tension collapses into pure shitposting. It's boring. And immature. Like when someone says he wants to watch the world burn. You only get to watch when you have the privilege of not being on fire."

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

They have an idea of how they want the world to collapse in their mind and want to search for the evidence of exactly that.

Most people have that bias. Searching for evidence that makes them correct. Look at all those mom blogs which the collapse community is often closer too than not.

I'd prefer it if it was just a place to observe things basic to modern society breaking, regressionist acts or actions, and pre-emptive scientific flags of upcoming climate changes but that's not what most people want out of their self confirmation bias.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago

show what you are talking about with link to source

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah the copy paste comments from different instances here are showing how guilty that instance is

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

It nearly 100% is.

They link to loads of russian propaganda websites.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Could you be more specific?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The two links in my post are two examples.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Okay? You did not provide any proof of those examples being Russian propaganda websites though? Just because someone shares Russian talking points, does not make the website a Russian propaganda site. I asked for actual proof of that statement that makes them near 100% confident, because that would require substantial proof. But it seems it's just feelings and "I don't like their opinion" based instead, which is a sad metric for being nearly 100% convinced.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You caught me. I don't like their opinion that solar panels cause micro-blackouts which damage equipment whenever a cloud passes across the sun, and all across Europe people are buying their own gas mini-power-plants because the power grid is ruining their factory equipment, and just based on my feelings, I felt like that statement made me really sad, and I lashed out by accusing it of being hilariously incompetent propaganda instead of the informative iconoclasty that it really is.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Well, feel free to provide proof that those sites are Russian propaganda websites then.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

такой педик для Путина

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago

If you think I can't use translators, you're wrong. But aside from your homophobic insult, it's quite ironic that you call me that when you're the one who has no interest in the truth, which is quite the Putin trait. They made a claim without it being backed by any sort of evidence and you just eat it up because you want to believe it. Don't be a sucker.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I never said I had proof. I actually specifically said that I could be right or wrong about this, but was just presenting what I think about it. Why would I have proof? I am not an intelligence agency or anything.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Because you're replying to this comment chain where I'm inquiring about proof regarding the claim that those websites are Russian propaganda websites.

Trying to dismiss someone who is asking for proof & sources of a claim is certainly part of the Russian propaganda playbook, so I'm not sure how believable you peeps are with what you're saying.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You asked for specifics, so I cited the specific articles, including excerpting some claims that are so transparently absurd that it's hard to see them any other way other than being Russian propaganda.

Is that "proof"? It is not. You seem unhappy with that answer. Okay. Not sure what else to tell you.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago

I wanted specifics about them linking to Russian propaganda websites. You did not provide any of that. Absurd claims from a writer does not make it a Russian propaganda website.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago

While that article does look as if its author has bought into some propaganda originating in Russia, that's really only revealed in the final paragraph, not the part you quoted. You seem to be reacting more to the "fossil fuels power everything" and "this latest rise in the price of oil and gas means that the final collapse of global industrial civilization is now underway" attitudes, both of which which are fine American traditions.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

In the meantime, and just for the record, the IMF has just named Russia the 4th largest economy of the world, surpassing Japan and Germany; after the World Bank classified it as a high income country.

What would even be #3 if Japan and Germany are out? The IMF’s October numbers (the most recent) list Russia’s economy as just over and under half as large as Japan’s and Germany’s, respectively, as a note.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

They may be talking about the PPP-adjusted numbers:

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/PPPSH@WEO/CHN/USA/JPN

That's a metric that's tailor-made, though, for exaggerating the health of an economy that has a large internal industrial base, but does minimal trade with the outside and whose currency has absolutely cratered with respect to the rest of the world.

Also, they're classed as a high income country because their national income per capita has risen to $14,250 US.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago

PPP makes sense, but you definitely have to specify that when talking about it (assuming your intent is not misinformation). “Largest economy” is not a specific thing, obviously, but googling it brings back exclusively GDP results. Given the super misleading statistic from a reputable source, I would have to agree that this is intentional.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Why is it misinformation, just because it has a somewhat pro-russuan line? In your post / comments you don't point out any falsehoods or anything misleading, just that it sounds Russian.

You can call them out as a putin-sympathizer if you think so and let people know about their bias, but that's all this seems to be, biased opinions, not misinformation.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Whenever a large solar farm returns production it sends a shock wave through the grid, damaging sensitive equipment nearby. Similarly, when a cloud suddenly blocks the Sun a micro-blackout could occur (lasting a few milliseconds) till back up capacity comes online. These fluctuations in the supply of electricity has forced many companies with sensitive manufacturing equipment to install surge protectors and uninterruptible power supply units costing tens or hundreds of thousands of Euros (depending on size) or outright buying a natural gas powered generation unit to produce their own stable electricity supply.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

If it's misinformation it's comically weak. Companies investing in surge protection and batteries? Tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars? The horror! Better get back to destroying the planet for cheap while propping up Putin. There's surely no way electricity suppliers will ever overcome such difficulties by, you know, themselves buying batteries and surge suppressors.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago

I mean, yes, it's betraying a little bit the mindset of the person writing it. I don't think a person in a first world country would make the mistake of saying that the literal electricity supply coming over the wires in Europe is unreliable, thinking that's realistic. Or thinking that tens of thousands of dollars on electrical equipment for the factory is some kind of crazy world-ending expenditure, even if that were happening. I think in a Russian frame of reference, both of those are perfectly reasonable things to say, but for a European they'd be weird and even someone making up nonsense would come up with different nonsense to come up with.

I do agree with your take on it, but also I was mostly making the point that they're not just vaguely pro-Russian, they're making up literal nonsense to try to get their point across.

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