Not that much, but I blocked some pretty nsfw instances…
this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2024
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Asklemmy
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Lemmy started as tankie safe-haven, and those memes are all over, not just on lemmy.
So I'd say, no.
Just yesterday I read a post about a woman being stalked by a supposed Nazi. At least 5 comments were quite literally 'buy a gun and shoot him', those had by far the most upvotes. When I said I hope theyre joking, I got downvoted and told you dont joke around when it comes to Nazis.
So yeah, maybe Lemmy is becoming kind of radical.
Tbf, "self defense," while technically being "violence," is the only time violence is actually acceptable. She should buy a gun if she's being stalked by anyone, but of course just buying one isn't enough. Also needed is practice to learn how to shoot (preferably with an instructor if you can afford it, but you can learn most of that stuff from the right sources online actually like Jerry Miculek's videos on it, if that's your only option), carry permit if your state needs it, and learning the laws regarding use of force in your area. Also buy/carry OC spray if it's legal (for instance it isn't legal in NYC) in case he ends up being a threat, but not a deadly threat.
Practicing nonviolence is a worthy pursuit and I'm also a proponent of it, but to go so far as to forego self defense in the name of pacifism is just foolish in my personal opinion. The advice isn't just "shoot him next time you see him," (that's called murder lol), it's "just in case he tries to kill you, be prepared with an Uno reverse card."
It was not about self defense, they were saying 'go and shoot that fucker in the face'
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The only difference is the immediacy. If exploitative strategies by healthcare companies directly caused harm to you or a loved one, it could very much be interpreted as self-defence to kill their CEO.
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The alternative would be to call the cops, who would say "we can't do anything as long as nothing has happened".
Personally I'd call the nearest Antifa group.
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First shots in defense of the working class have been fired in the class war and most of us are surprised it took this long.
As someone who’s father was killed by health insurance companies, the assassination of the UHC CEO brings out some really passionate bloodthirsty emotions in me. And I’m just one person….
The assassin is my hero. Too bad if it hurts your sensibilities. Fuck him, fuck his family, no sympathy. I hope there are many copycats, there are many deserving targets.
Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent revolution inevitable. They have it coming.
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Radical but not logical. Make a post about a violent criminal who murders someone. And then poll the community if that criminal should get the death penalty. And I'll bet the majority would say no and be against the death penalty for all convicted criminals. But those same people have no problem cheering on the murder of someone that they don't like. If a person can live with this contradiction I'd guess that they just aren't thinking for themselves but following a crowd.
The state has convicted and executed innocent people. The average criminal subject to capital punishment has killed an order (or several) of magnitudes fewer people than the health insurance industry.
As a country we seem to weigh more heavily acts of individual violence than those of systemic violence or violence borne of policy even when the latter 2 have far more impactful and wide spread negative results. It's completely logical to draw a distinction between the 2 circumstances.
I'm not saying all vigilante justice is good, and I wouldn't necessarily be against the state holding to account executives who have produced systems and policies that result in the harm or death of the state's citizens, but in the current system justice is rare and in this act millions of people received justice.
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It's not necessarily a contradiction. Lots of people now trust a "fellow man" to make a judgement on who deserves death more than the state.
So they aren't against killing "evil" people, they just don't agree with the state's definition of "evil", and deny its right to decide that.
Basically, it's the premise of Batman: When the state has failed to deliver justice, the people turn to vigilante justice.
Vigilante justice is so cool right up to the point that it is used against the people that you admire. And that is the contradiction.
It's not execution, it's class war.
Using other words to describe murder doesn't make it different.
Is Ukraine murdering Russians? Is Palestine murdering Israelis? Would it be murder if they killed Putin or Netanyahu?
You seem to think war which has been around since the beginning of time is the same thing as an individual violating civil law and murdering another individual. I find it fascinating reading posts and comments about this incident because it's as if those who condemn murder are in some way fans of the guy that got murdered. I don't know anything about him as an individual, but I think it is obscene for the head people of any company to get paid such a huge amount in comparison to the other employees. And in general I think health insurance companies suck. I'm saying that from personal experience. And, I don't know, but the guy who got murdered may have put into effect policies that fucked many people who deserved insurance benefits and were denied. So was he a bad guy? Probably. But it doesn't mean murdering him is justified or should be endorsed.
The problem with supporting breaking a law is that eventually someone that you like or admire, but who is hated by a large portion of the country is murdered like this guy. Then all of a sudden it's a problem. You can't have it both ways
Class war is war.
The US has literally bombed its citizens on 2 occasions because of class resistance. The military has literally taken up arms against the citizens it swore to protect over class differences. We describe violent clashes between workers and the bourgeoisie as "battles."
Just because we've experienced a period of unprecedented peace doesn't mean class conflict is over--it will not be over until class is abolished.
Also, revolutions, civil war, and war in general are most often illegal.
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Yes and no.
There are more calls for violence, yes.
But a lot of people on Lemmy have a lot of catching up to do in understanding the world, nuances and getting rid of outdated and harmful thinking stagnated by clinging onto certain ideologies and belief systems.
That would be way more 'radical' than just violence alone.
The recent killing of the UHC CEO seems to have pushed all the right buttons in activating people's bloodlust and mob mentality. But I actually looked at some of the threads on reddit after being a bit taken aback by the reaction on Lemmy, and redditors were being just as violent. So I don't think it's Lemmy getting more radical, it's just the flavor of the week right now to celebrate violence, as long as it's against the bad guys.
I think in general there's just a lot of people getting to the end of their rope at the moment. This isn't just hatred directed at insurance companies (although that was certainly the catalyst to get it started), but I think it's also a reflection of growing agitation towards the upper class
The main doctor Reddit had to delete a whole thread due to bloodlust.
We are rampant for a revolution. Everyone is united in how pissed they are over health insurance. We need to seize this moment.
A successful revolution takes a whole lot more than bloodlust and directionless anger. The emotion is there, but there is no revolutionary framework or ideology in place to direct that feeling towards meaningful change. This seeming "unity" is ephemeral, it'll be forgotten as soon as the next media cycle starts.
No it won’t. Kill people’s family and they’ll spend years thinking of ways to get revenge. Multiply that by millions. Multiply that by desperate economic conditions. I am one of the people who lost a parent to these ghouls, and I’ve had 13 years to think about it. This killing woke up some deep emotions that aren’t going to go away anytime soon.
We’ve been sitting on a powder keg for a while. It doesn’t take many people to start some shit - a few more assassinations and things will change fast.
We’ve been sitting on a powder keg for a while. It doesn’t take many people to start some shit - a few more assassinations and things will change fast.
Things will change for the worse. We just elected Donald Trump and the government is controlled by conservatives. How exactly are you expecting them to react to CEOs getting assassinated? You think they're going to come to the table and work out a plan for universal healthcare, a compromise?
Fuck no, they're going to fight fire with fire. And they've already proved they can manufacture consent from average Americans by taking advantage of their stupidity to make them go against their best interests.
I'm sorry for your loss, but this nonsense isn't going to bring anyone back, it's just going to lead to even more suffering and violence.
They already fight fire with fire. What’s your solution, continue to lay down and take it? Continue, for decades, to get anally raped with no lube?
As a bullied child, that’s not how this works. You fight back. Drones have proven themselves in Ukraine. A new asymmetrical warfare is coming and it’s best we catch these overprivileged shitheads while they’re still finding their balance in this new world the assassin ushered in. They need to be reminded they are neither invincible nor untouchable.
I'm on your side. You're speaking out of desperation, lashing out instinctually.
But as I said before, directionless anger will not get you far. You and those like you will surely fail, and all of your rage will amount to nothing.
As they say, when you come at the king, you best not miss. As bad as you feel the situation is now, it could be far, far worse.
You sound like you’re discouraging more assassinations. If so we’re not on the same side.
I'm on the side that wants to produce meaningful change for human society. I want to help people.
If you just want to kill people without thinking or caring about the consequences, then I guess we aren't on the same side.
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What communities?
I think it's America that's getting more violent. You see the same thing on other platforms.
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Its not really just Lemmy tho. Its everywhere.
People are just mad these days and that event in NYC ignited their anger they always had.
I think most people are more like saying "LOL" at what happened rather than "Lets kill [insert person name here]". I mean, nobody really asked for it, nobody gave the pepetrator the "okay" to do it, the person just did it. People aren't sympathetic because the dead person wasn't such a nice person.
Remember how people celebrated Bin Laden's death, this is like that. Different nationality, same killer mindset that they had in common.
how people celebrated Bin Laden’s death
Ouch, some deep introspection is required if you get to a point in life where you, being an insurance CEO and being killed lead to the same kind of mob reactions as Bin Laden's death.
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Fair I'm not really on any other forums anymore and I haven't heard anything about this CEO death until just now
Fascinating. Are you in the US?
I could not have avoided knowing about it. Even if I were to stay off the internet completely, it has been a major conversation topic in real life with friends and family. My work has BCBS health insurance coverage so when they were dropping coverage for anesthesia, all casual conversations at work with colleagues were about it too. I couldn't have avoided it if I actively tried.
I'm not in the US no, so far nobody has mentioned it in conversation
I think most people are more like saying “LOL” at what happened rather than “Lets kill [insert person name here]”.
I've definitely seen quite a few memes that were like "Here are the names and faces of a few other health insurance CEOs. No particular reason ;)". But yeah it's probably not most.
I thought that was more noting that the companies were trying to quietly remove those pages and experiencing the Streisand effect in relation to that
Count me in the second category. I’ve got a mental list of people I’d love to see offed in similar fashion. I’d do it myself but I have to care for my mother.
Doubt it, but at least your priorities are on track
Don’t doubt it. I have skin in the game, it’s time these CEOs feel our wrath. They left my father to die a horrible death. I want revenge. There’s millions of me.
Agreed, but to say you will murder and actually murdering are two separate things
After my mother is no longer on this earth, don’t doubt me. I’ve had years of rage pent up in me over this. It’s justified. I’d only take out someone like the UHC CEO.
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I can understand you emotions, even if I can't directly relate (living in a country with universal healthcare). But I do think it's a slippery slope. Those kind of "kill the oppressors" movements may hit the "right people" at first, but also have a tendency of going wildly out of control. (Khmer Rouge etc)
...
Did you really blame a movement that basically existed for twenty years after relevance through US (and Chinese, interestingly enough) machinations and support, and was actually ousted by the communist Vietnamese, on a 'kill the oppressors' view?
Jesus, capitalists will say and do everything to blame the consequences of their actions on everyone else.
IMO. You have no clue what you're talking about. You're just parroting any anti-capitalist rhetoric and feeling superior about it. This is based on the fact that you enjoy calling and insinuating people are stupid
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Yeah, don’t care. You have no idea what it’s like to live here and how many people are ready to take matters into their own hands. Our government and justice system are a sham. We’ve had decades to do things the right way and we’ve been blocked from all matters of doing things peacefully. Violence it is.
These people killed my father and rendered my mother and I homeless for a short stint. I’ve had a lifetime of trauma dealing with these ghouls. I’d kill them myself if I didn’t have a responsibility to take care of my mom. I’ve wanted to do what the assassin did for the last 13 years. You let these companies deny your family healthcare and watch your loved ones rot and see if you want to take the high road. I and millions more are out for blood.
This was the first shot of many to come. Fuck the elite.
Just be careful you don't get in the crossfire yourself once the people's bloodlust takes over and who the elite is shifts. In some cases, wearing glasses was enough.
I’m already visibly queer and have been physically assaulted most of my childhood for it and threatened as an adult too. I don’t give a shit anymore.
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Can you think of anything that happened in the past month or so, perhaps involving US politics, that might have a tendency to radicalize people?