There are far right extremists on the rise in Germany as well. The question you should ask yourself is: Do you want to risk an AfD-lead, Putin-loving, EU- and NATO-critic government being in control of those nuclear weapons?
this post was submitted on 01 Dec 2024
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This comment section seems to assume that just because the cold war never went nuclear, it never could have. It also seems to forget the stress of living under constant threat of nuclear war.
We need to get rid of nukes, not build new ones. One of our core projects as humanity should be to get rid of nuclear weapons. Our failure to do so is the fault of the Americans as much as the Russians, if not more. You guys sure love your bombs.
So to answer the question: Nah, fuck that.
But what should one do if one has a neighbor who constantly threatens with nuclear annihilation and who doesn't respect anyone who's not also a nuclear power? Just give in? I feel that we're no longer in a Nash equilibrium.
Build up defence, and a plausible threat using other less awful weapons.
Nuclear threatens the civil population. Despots like Putin might not even care all that much about that. What we need is targeted weapons and intelligence. Putin should expect that, if he launches a nuke, it might not mean that Moscow will be transformed to ashes, but we'll take out him and his crooks with targeted strikes wherever they may hide.
The Russians have a history of burning their cities to the ground, and of sacrificing their population for strategic reasons. Targeting the civilian population is pointless. We can do a lot better with targeted strikes, and with modern technology it should be possible.
Fair point.
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Who the fuck is going to invade Germany?
One does not have to invade. Make them a puppet by using credible threats (they aren't credible ATM). Do as we say or we fuck you up basically. Maybe blow of a nuke in the Baltic sea, close to the German coast, to show them one is serious.
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Denmark. First they build the world with lego, than they take it.
One should never trust the Danes.
Any country that doesn't want to be invaded should acquire nuclear weapons.
We already have nuclear participation with the US. In case NATO decides for mutual nuclear defense, the US nuclear bombs stored in Germany exclusively for German use would be attached to airplanes of the German Air Force to be deployed onto their targets.
And what if the orange man and his friend Putin differs?
There is still the Fr*nch sub's that Macron just offered to be a shared EU resource.
And what happens if Le Pen wins the next election?
About the same thing as if the AfD does.
We get fucked, my friend. And that's why establishing a shared EU army to pass the nukes to would be good for everyone.
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What if the USA decides to side with Russia against Germany?
well if the bombs are located inside Germany it's not all that simple
Good luck using them unless you're allowed to. Might be an option if you have a couple of months. Though you would have to defend against two nuclear powers during that time.
Also good luck using your US made jets and critical components.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure if Germany and the US were on so bad terms that they wouldn't be trading, Western civilization would just collapse. The NL of ASML fame is a very, very close German ally.
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Well it actually is, terrifyingly so even.
Not sure what you mean by "for German use". The US is very much in charge of every step of the use of shared nuclear weapons. Our pilots get to deliver them, that's pretty much all of our involvement.
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No.
Why not? This is contingent on the US being an unreliable nuclear umbrella... And Germany deciding they will be part of the EU's nuclear deterrence.
I don't like the idea being part of a country that could kill thousands or even millions of people at once.
Any country is able to do that through conventional weapons though.
Well, no, but I'd rather be in the position of the stick holder than the potential pointy end receiver.
Nuclear war is not a stick battle, it's a knife fight. You'll both end up bleeding out. Best thing you can do is to not participate.
People should watch Doctor Strangelove as a fucking case study.
Best thing you can do is to not participate.
Welcome to nuclear deterrent.
Best thing you can do is to not fucking participate.
What if that's not an option? It could for sure be rational for a violent actor to force it's will on a non-voilent one. One only needs one rotten apple and the Nash equilibrium dissolves.
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Yes, and lots of them. Cold war is much better than actual war.
You don't need many nowadays. They can be city killers all by themselves.. a single satan 2 missile Russia is so desperate to get working would be able to wipe new York of the map...
It would additionally require a few subs for second strike capability.
I guess the question would be connected with how europe is going to handle its combined military defense.