A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.
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This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.
I am still concerned about fluoride, but for different reasons. The federal government says there is too much natural fluoride in our water so we must import water to dilute it. The federal government doesn't trust us with police officers, or politicians, but surely the public water company isn't corrupt or incompetent....surely.
But hey, our teeth are really white and no ones died from flouride, far more likely to die from sudden lead.
Fluoridated water doesn't seem to make a difference on cavities. It does have neurological effects. It's simply not acutely fatal. It's already in our toothpaste. We don't need it in our municipal water supply and the majority of developed countries don't.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/fluoridated-drinking-water/
I appreciate that you put some reputable sources, rather than relying on a random tweet/post.
I want someone who knows about these things to respond to this 2012 metastudy that ties naturally fluoridated groundwater to neurological problems. I have used this the past decade to say “well the science is unclear;” I found it back then (2013 at the latest) when I was trying to disprove a crank and really questioned my shit. There was a(n unrelated?) follow up later that questioned the benefits. Since this is very far from my area of expertise, I’m not championing these; I just want to understand why they’re wrong or at least don’t matter in the discourse.
(Edit: for the educated, there could be a million ways these are wrong. Authors are idiots, study isn’t reproducible, industry capture, conclusions not backed up by data, whatever. I just don’t have the requisite knowledge to say these are wrong and therefore fluoridated water is both safe and useful)
Update: great newer studies in responses! You can have a rational convo starting with these two that moves to newer stuff.
I also came across the same study while looking to disprove a conspiracy nut. We should really do more research on the effects of fluoride.
It looks like someone else linked one of these studies in a different comment while I was writing my own. I don’t feel as crazy now. I don’t care one way or another; I just want to make sure I can respond correctly! I wonder if the emphasis on fluoridated water is itself linked to industry capture?
I managed to catch myself good old Periodontal Disease. This freaked me out. My anxiety and ADHD shook hands and many of you can imagine what happened.
A couple days and who knows how many hours later I emerged like a butterfly from my self-imposed isolation with new knowledge. In short, yes, the amount of fluoride in water processed in various districts across the U.S. is tiny. The amount used does vary. Some studies have concluded that excess fluoride can have an effect on brain activity. However, they have been inconclusive in drawing actual parallels between any form of neurological functioning - though I can't remember if I've read that particular study.
Anyway, remember who is yelling about this. As with many issues brought up like this it's more about standing on a hill and shouting rather than any real significant problem. A platform to be seen and heard.
Btw, I completely halted my Periodontal and even reversed some of the lesser effects it had. Sometimes that adhd rabbit hole comes in handy.
Toxicologist here. I think that take is dishonest or dumb.
Taking a lethal dose is almost never the concern with any substance in our drinking water.
Hormones, heavy metals, persistent organic chemicals, ammonia are all in our drinking water. But for all of them we can't drink enough water to die from a high dose.
Some of them still have a large effect on our bodies.
It's about the longterm effects. Which we need longterm studies to learn about. That makes them harder to study.
Still doesn't mean flouride does anything bad longerm. But the argument is bad.
Yeah, by this argument lead in the water isn't a concern.
You just made me mad by helping me realize that the Trump bros are going to break water by removing fluoride long before they fix water by removing lead.
Okay fluoride gang (of which I may be a member)…
A study about the affects of fluoride in municipal water on plants: MSU study
the people that need to hear this will never believe you.
Now say something that bros can really understand, like "fluoride affects zinc and magnesium absorption". Just don't tell them how it interacts
It's not about toxicity, it's about mind control! Fluoride makes you passive. But you know this since you're a tool of the government pushing poison.
Just bleach your teeth like normal people! You know, with the bleach under the kitchen sink.
(Don't actually do this)
And that's why you should only drink grain alcohol and pure, natural rain water. To preserve the essence of your precious bodily fluids.
Like the ol' General said / s
We can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face.
I mean, trump got reelected. I hope it's the flouride.
Toxicologist, toxicity, minuscule, fluoridated -- your big doctor words are just trying to trick us!
The question is: does it make sense to buy toothpaste with fluoride then or can I buy one without? Just because my kids don't like the peppermint ones and other flavours are most of the times without fluoride
Always buy flouride toothpaste.
Fluoridated toothpaste is more effective than drinking water. The fluoride works by direct contact with the enamel. Another reason it doesn't make sense to put it in drinking water.
Fluoride in the water is beneficial in the pre-eruptive phase (when teeth are still growing). Fluoride ingestion increases tooth resistence to cavities if the ingestion happened while they were growing.
This does mean that fluoride in water isn't really useful after you have all your permanent teeth though.
Non-fluoridated toothpaste is mainly for kids who are too young to be able to consistently spit it all out. The concentration of fluoride in toothpaste is high enough that you shouldn't be swallowing it, because doing that on the regular is harmful to your teeth. Gray discoloration is one of the first symptoms.
If your kids are capable of doing "rinse and spit," then they should be using fluoridated toothpaste.
And even then, there's a significant safety margin worked into the advice that you shouldn't swallow toothpaste. You'd need to eat several tubes of prescription strength toothpaste to get sick from fluoride.
Still rinse and spit though
Absolutely true - and I just remembered, even if your kids are little and using non-fluoridated toothpaste, you should still be using this time to teach them rinse and spit.
What is this rinse? You are supposed to leave the toothpaste on your teeth iirc. No water rinse.
Edit sorry realized this comes off harsh but not sure how to fix it. Lmao