There is a CATEGORY difference, between:
- Not supporting Hamas
vs
- Supporting what UN officials have openly called genocide.
I would have expected Germany to not require people to support genocide??
??
_ /\ _
this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
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What the fuck is happening? Here in Belgium they started to deny citizenship to some Palestinian kids or something. Wtf is the narrative here?
Europeans trying to be on the right side of history for once in their life:
More like Europeans playing to type and oppressing brown people.
Misleading title. There's a big difference between recognizing the right to exist of a country vs "supporting" a country.
That said, I also think there's a big difference between recognizing the right to exist of a country and the right to exist of a people. Human rights is one thing, but I don't think requiring agreement on international politics should be required for citizenship. I don't support a lot of things the US does, so I don't think that should be a requirement for citizenship.
The thing with Germany is, after the whole thing with that toothbrush mustache guy they really kind of swung the pendulum really far the other way. Germany takes antisemitism very seriously. And also anything that could be construed in any way to even hint at it.
So anybody who even looks a little bit goose-steppy is not getting in.
Partly jewish, german citizen here. Germany takes antisemitism so seriously that they can't even see beyound it anymore. 86% of antisemitic attacks in Germany come from the homegrown, far right extremists, yet the public narrative is that "Germany is importing antisemitism from abroad". German authorities are littered with all these far-right extremists and antisemitic theories about jews controlling the world are still common place. Antisemitic conspiracy theories about Soros and the Rothschilds are still fairly common. Neo-nazis running around spraying swastikas on walls and venerating the fascist dictatorship that killed a part of my family are still okay. Cops sharing Hitler memes and commemorating his birthday is fine with this state. The state conveniently doesn't care enough about those to take action. After WW2 most nazis got away scot free. The top leadership positions in government agencies and the biggest companies were filled with nazis. No one dared touch them. Hell, to twist the knife even more, in an almost comedic fashion the Minister for displaced persons under the first german chancellor Konrad Adenauer AFTER THE WAR was a full on nazi. He was a top guy in the SA. He was responsible for the occupation of Ukraine and the killing of countless jews there. The over 60 THOUSAND officers that were directly involved in well documented executions of jewish citizens also walked away scot free. The catholic church in Germany helped countless nazis escape prosecution by trying to get them out of the country. Hell, they even went as far as to help them get counterfeit documents.
But now suddenly Germany has somehow found this great urge to fight against what THEY say is antisemitism (No, criticising Israel isn't antisemitic). Suddenly, NOW antisemitism is sooooo problematic to Germany. Now all of a sudden Germany is this beacon of hope in the fight against antisemitism.
I am highly interested in jewish history (mostly because it's the history of my great grandparents that died in the holocaust). I do not care one ounce about Israel. Neither did my great grandparents. They were ROMANIAN jews. Not Israeli jews. If Germany wants to do a good thing, then they should help JEWS first and foremost including the ones that disagree with Israel, and stop labeling everyone as antisemitic because they oppose the massacre in Gaza. If Germany was even as charitable in the slightest as some people claim it to be, then they'd invest at least half as much energy into fighting for justice for THE OTHER people that were oppressed by the nazis: gay people, trans people, romas and sintis (hundreds of thousands of which died during the holocaust), disabled people, and so on. Yet the state barely seems to give two craps about these other groups. I guess they aren't loud enough for Germany to even care about them. Hell, they barely even started commemorating the LGBT people killed by the nazi regime just a few years ago. All of this is a farce. This is just a knee jerk reaction Germany has to try to paint itself as the good guy again. They never cared about actually changing something and working out their history.
This entire narrative that Germany is so highly interested in fighting against fascism is nothing but a farce. Almost nothing even worth mentioning has been done in Germany in regards to far right, nazi inspired extremism after WW2.
All this circus is just German guilt at play. They're trying to "make things right" by unconditionally supporting Israel, and thus they are equating Israel with jewishness (which is intself antisemitic, since there are many jews that aren't citizens of Israel). They do not have a responsibility towards Israel. They have a responsibility towards jews and towards ALL the people that are getting massacred by brutal regimes, just like Germany 80 years ago. Germany has the responsibility to stand for ALL the discriminated and oppressed people, and they are failing magnificently at that. The current situation is just a convenient way for Germany to find a way out of being the bad guys from 80 years ago without actually having to work on their history as they should.
I'm so done with this narrative. It isn't protecting jewish people. It isn't protecting the oppressed. It's just protecting this twisted german narrative because they refuse to actually take a hard look in the mirror.
Thank you for sharing those insights! It feels like anti Zionist Jews are deliberately ignored by the media and slandered as self-hating or whatever. Zionism is completely monopolising the discourse and censoring alternative viewpoints.
We had this submission yesterday already and the title is very misleading. No one has to support Israel, but one state in Germany demands to recognize Israel's right to exist.
Bavaria? I feel like you're gonna say Bavaria
Saxony-Anhalt
What's their deal?
They hate Muslims and backing Israel is the polite way to express it
I think the sentiment currently is that they can exist, but should also allow other nations/states to exist alongside them.
Apartheid states should not exist.
Sure, but apartheid is policy. You stop an apartheid state from existing by ending apartheid.
Yeah, but then they’ll claim bullshit that giving freedom to Palestinians is the “end of Israel”
It's still something you can argue should be done even if it's not currently politically feasible. Things don't always stay politically unfeasible, but they usually don't get pushed in that direction by people not making that argument in public.
My utopian take would be that Israel should become fundamentally secular, remove references to being a 'Jewish state', grant all Palestineans citizenship and full rights, and perhaps change the name - a lot of people would say that should just be called Palestine, but frankly I think a compromise of Israel-Palestine or some other completely new name would be fine too. End the colonialism & apartheid, everyone who's there lives in peace, people who had to flee during previous wars get to come back.
I don't know that we'll ever see that, but it probably is much more unlikely if we don't try to convince people that it's a good idea.
Zionists would say that's denying Israel's right to exist and is anti Semitic. That's the kind of fucked up Orwellian world Israel has imposed on the West.