Self-defense is one thing.
Car-defense is another.
this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
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If somebody is threatening your life for your stuff then they are still threatening your life. Their motive doesn't change the fact that they are threatening to kill you.
But no lives were actually threatened.
An unarmed 13 year old who could pantomime met a grown ass US Marshal.
If I poke you in your back with a stick and say "do exactly as I say and you might, just might, live through this"
Are you seriously going to:
- go "nah bro, I don't believe you, go home, you're drunk" or
- are you going to take me very fucking seriously and not only comply but also try to think really hard and fast about getting out of dodge using any (and I do mean any) means necessary because you reasonably assume I have a loaded gun pressed against your back?
If you answer the first option, then we stop now, as you're clearly being dishonest.
Well... you won't believe me, but when I was walking home through an alley at night after my community College classes, and I had a .22 pressed into my back shoulder with a voice saying "don't fucking move", I turned around (pretty slowly in fact), took the gun (quite casually in fact) and then watched the dude run.
Then I called 911, turned the gun over to the cops, and filed a report.
I didn't have a gun myself, and I didn't shoot at his back with his gun.
So ya... I see what you are trying to do, but personally, I think I'm just pretty dumb and not a pussy.
Cops told me the guy was a simple mugger who had been working the block for about a month, and I should have just given him my wallet, but they also seemed pretty jazzed to have his gun.
you won't believe me
Correct. I did not.
I think I'm just pretty dumb
At least we agree on something
Cops told me the guy was a simple mugger who had been working the block for about a month, and I should have just given him my wallet, but they also seemed pretty jazzed to have his gun.
And then everyone clapped
Great job sugartits.
You won the internet with your "he should have murdered that unarmed 13 year old" rhetoric.
Feel like a big boy now?
Cus all I see is you and your kin. A bunch of piss babies running round with your guns.
No mass shootings ended. But yall real efficient bout murdering brown children.
Once again the actual intent doesn't matter because that was only known to them. The only people who knew if they actually had weapons or not were them and you're going to fault people for believing them when they said they did. They were threatening another persons life (once again no one knew they were faking it except them) that is the only thing that maters in this situation.
They knowingly made the marshal believe they had weapons, was the marshal just supposed to let themself get shot? There are a lot of things to criticize US police for, but protecting themselves when there is a clear, deliberate, and imminent threat on their lives is not one of them.
Yes it's sad that a troubled kid with an underdeveloped brain made a stupid decision and was killed for it. But that doesn't make it ok to victim blame someone for defending themself from a threat upon their life.
"Once again the actual intent doesn’t "
The fuck it doesn't, you absolute goddam monster.
What about self defense when in a car?
What about self defense in a box?
Self defense from a fox?
Your levity at the summary execution of a 13 year old speaks for itself.
Maybe block this instance, your opinions seem incompatible with the majority opinion here.
Maybe you should gargle my ballsack.
The worst part of this is that a security guard (not even a police officer) shot and killed a 13 year old child for attempting to steal a car. No one's life is worth more than some vehicle
They approached from both sides of the car with their hand on their waistbands as if they had a weapon. Was he supposed to magic his way out of that? Talk to them? Plead?
He had a gun. They threatened a person with a gun. This is what happens sometimes when you do that. It's the risk you assume when you take up carjacking. It's a high-risk occupation.
Carjacking is not punishable by summary execution.
I would agree unless the carjacker appears to have a gun. Like its not great a 13 year old died but with how weapons are designed. Its quite easy for a 13 year old to end a life (intentionally or not) if armed.
Please take a moment.
A 13 year old without a gun was shot dead by an off duty US Marshal.
Now please consider what you just said, while acknowledging the context.
No, but intentionally making somebody think you have a weapon and are threatening them with it is inherently risky, since people panic and may try to defend themselves (and this isn't exactly unreasonable either, a car might not be worth lives, sure, but cooperating with a criminal threatening you with a weapon isn't necessarily going to prevent them from using it anyway depending on their motivations and what they perceive you to be doing, and people threatened in such a manner can't reasonably be expected to act rationally anyway).
If you are prone to panic, the last thing you should have is a gun.
Pretty much any person in existence is going to panic at least to some degree if you surprise them with a weapon. In any case, I wasn't getting into the weeds about gun control with that, Im generally in favor of gun control myself, though with a few caveats, but what I was more trying to get at is that it isn't unreasonable for someone threatening someone with a weapon to end up dead, not because I personally think they should be killed (I don't), but because when you go out of your way to do something that is by nature going to provoke one heck of a fight or flight response in people, some people are going to fight, and in fights people sometimes die. A gun makes that more likely of course, but it can still happen regardless (such as if other weapons, like a heavy object that can be used as a club, or a car for that matter, are available, or if the attacker does have a weapon but the victim mamages to take it, or just from getting punched in the wrong place). Obviously the intended victim can go too far, like if they continue to attack a fleeing assailant, but in general, the responsibility for someone getting killed in that kind of scenario is primarily on the person who caused that scenario, the attacker. Hence why we often consider someone guilty of murder if they commit a violent crime and someone gets killed as a result, even if that person didn't themselves do the killing.
I see a fuck ton of mental gymnastics here.
You are in a thread about a US Marshal, not acting as a US Marshal, shooting dead a 13 year old who didn't even actually have a gun.
Please. Dive into the weeds. This child needed help, not a bullet.
America needs gun control. Direly.
If he was acting in a way as to trick someone into thinking he had a gun, then you can hardly blame the other party for not realizing that he did not actually have one. And for that matter, even with gun control, a US marshal is exactly the kind of person one would expect to still be decently likely to have one.
I agree that America needs gun control, the reason why I haven't been talking about it as much here is that I think that in this specific instance in particular, it probably would not have helped, and so isnt as good a case for arguing it, as, say, those times when some idiot decides that shooting someone for using their driveway to turn around is somehow justified. I am not doing this as some kind of mental gymnastics to justify private gun ownership. I do not own a gun, nor do I feel particularly comfortable around them. I just don't feel that the issue is especially relevant to what happened in this case, assuming the reporting of the incident or my quick reading of it have not missed some important details.
I get it.
You drop novels on why you should murder an unarmed 13 year old.
You disgust me.
I like the cut of your jib.
Cringe, but you don't know how much that means right now.
Maybe don't carjack anyone and put yourself in a position where someone feels threatened enough to do this? By the other article linked, this kid went on a little crime spree and fucked around enough to find out. Sucks for his family, but this was inevitable.
Thanks captain obvious.
"Just stop it or die" isn't a rally cry I can get behind.
Kid needed help, not a bullet.
It appears you are incorrect
Sadly.
it looked like it was a US marshal. it doesn't justify a life, but i would be hard pressed to find a marshal that would react differently to an attempted car jacking.
Actual law enforcement need to he prohibited from moonlighting as security guards.
Nothing good ever comes of it.
They just get a taste for doing what they consider to be their day job without official oversight.