this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 24 minutes ago) (1 children)

MAGA is popular for the same reason other nationalist, fascist movements have risen over the course of modern history: as a response to Capitalist decay. MAGA isn't popular for genetic reasons, intellectual inferiority, or other reasons like that, but as a common class interest. All of the descriptors in the OP are consequences of the driving factor of class interests, not the drivers themselves.

Fascism is most often represented as an alliance between the Petite Bourgeoisie and Bourgeoisie proper, driven by the Petite Bourgeoisie, as monopolization of Capital results in competition becoming more and more difficult, and the Petite Bourgeoisie faces Proletarianization. To prevent the Petite Bourgeoisie from joining the Proletariat in solidarity, the Bourgeoisie proper turns their hatred against the Proletariat and Lumpenproletariat.

What does this all mean, in practical, American terms? Small business owners, landlords, ie the "middle class," is shrinking in power, so the Small Business Owners are aligning with billionaires like Musk and Bezos against immigrants, workers, unhoused peopled, gender/sexual minorities, women, ethnic minorities, and more.

How do we fix this? Grow the Petite Bourgeoisie and restore their position? Absolutely not! That's when fascism is established. Trying to "turn the clock back to the good old days" results in dramatic reductions in worker rights and a solidification of power.

What we need to do is establish Socialism. A victory of the Proletariat, a folding of the large monopolist syndicates into the public sector so they can be centrally planned for the public good, rather than privately planned for profit, is the way forward. This is the way to escape fascism's rise. This is the way to defeat MAGA.

I recommend reading the book Blackshirts and Reds, fascism's irrationality has rational, material origins, that can be understood and defeated, and it isn't in the "marketplace of ideas."

[–] [email protected] -2 points 20 minutes ago (1 children)

This is why the Left always loses.

The Right puts forward a Ronald Reagan or Donald Trump. They give great speeches and stir up people's emotions. The Left tells people to read a book.

People still talk about Emma Goldman and Rosa Luxemburg because then understood this; they stirred the people up and got them excited.

Instead of suggesting a book, why don't you try naming an actual candidate that people can vote for? We're going to have the 2026 election a lot sooner than we're going to have a Socialist uprising.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 minutes ago (1 children)

The book is supplementary to the comment, I explained the big picture in my comment. Blackshirts and Reds isn't a call to action or an explanation of what to do, but an examination of fascism and Communism, who they served historically, and the material basis for them.

Voting for Harris won't stop fascism, because it won't stop Capitalist decay. You can even see her trying to appeal to small business owners, attempting to "turn the clock back," in her own campaign. Neither will voting for Claudia De La Crúz, PSL's candidate, nor will Stein, and obviously nor will Trump.

Electoralism cannot solve the conditions giving rise to fascism.

The answer is to join revolutionary orgs like the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) or Freedom Road Socialist Organization (FRSO). Only through organization outside the electoral system does the Proletariat have any hope of steering the ship and seizing the reigns.

The Right puts forward a Ronald Reagan or Donald Trump. They give great speeches and stir up people's emotions. The Left tells people to read a book.

The US Empire is far-right, they can field candidates supporting the status quo in both the DNC and GOP. Liberalism is the status quo, taught from birth. Leftism requires reading, because they don't teach it in school, they censor leftism and shun it. It's a struggle, yes, but it's a winnable one.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 minutes ago (1 children)

Thanks for proving my point.

I ask for one simple thing; a candidate that I can support. You couldn't do that one tiny thing.

Why don't you try actually listening to what people want instead of telling them what they should do?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 minutes ago

If electoralism will not establish Socialism, what is the point of recommending a candidate? The best candidate you can vote for is Claudia De La Crúz, but she can't get 270 votes to win, because she isn't on enough state's ballots.

Your desire for a simple "vote for this person and everything will be alright" does not exist.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 hours ago

My daughter calls them trumpy grumpies and I thought it was a good name.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Never really liked this argument, since it's not really a contemporary political movement where you just read the policy and go "yup that sounds good", it's more akin to a cult with a large indoctrination campaign.

You have alternative news floating around on the same platforms as real ones, you're told to not believe the "other side" as they're all in league with one another and always lie, you can have coworkers or your community reinforce these things making it very hard to escape especially if you've been a part of it for years. The current 'liberal politics' and the living situation doesn't help either too and does contribute to the general stress that makes people fall down these rabbitholes.

Granted, people who have a lot to benefit from MAGA and are acting as influencers for the movement should be rightfully hated, but not really regular people. I do believe that a lot of people who currently are going to (begrudgingly) vote for democrats could definitely be part of the MAGA cult given different environment (such as work, living area or community they're part of).

Point is, hate the movement, not the people. While it's very difficult, it's possible to deradicalize someone and vilification is not really going to help with that.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 33 minutes ago)

Great response. I'm an independent and the loudest voices on the left and the right are hateful but almost none of the people are. This post is just, "hate the right because they hated you first" and that shit gets old and gets us nowhere and widens divides. Oh but election season! The shrieking continues...

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 hours ago

i think what you are saying is the thing op in the screenshot also belives in originally. but after doorknocks after doorknocks talking to many people she changed her minds.

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