this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 67 points 1 day ago (4 children)

At last, we'll be seeing nuclear reactors being created using Agile! Fail early, fail often, hopefully don't kill everyone!

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 day ago (15 children)

I am suprised to see all the negativity. I for one think this is awesome and would love to see SMRs become more mainstream.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I agree, and it is possibly the only good thing to come out of AI.
Like people asking "why do we need to go to the moon?!".

Fly-by-wire (ie pilot controls decoupled from physical actuators), so modern air travel.

Integrated circuits (IE multiple transistors - and other components - in the same silicon package). Basically miniaturisation and reduction in power consumption of computers.

GPS. The Apollo missions lead to the rocket tech/science for geosynchronous orbits require for GPS.


This time it is commercial.
I'd rather the power requirements were covered by non-carbon sources. However it proves the tech for future use.

For a similar example, I have a strong dislike of Elon Musk. He has ruined the potential of Twitter and Tesla, but SpaceX has had some impressive accomplishments.

Google are a shitty company. I wish the nuclear power went towards shutting down carbon power.
But SOMEONE has to take the risk. I wish that someone was a government. But it's Google. So.... Kind of a win?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I'd rather the power requirements were covered by non-carbon sources

Is nuclear not?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Those are the people that would sell your soul to the devil.

[–] [email protected] 127 points 1 day ago (13 children)

Crazy how quickly we've gone from "Nuclear is a dead technology, it can't work and its simply too expensive to build more of. Y'all have to use fossil fuels instead" to "We're building nuclear plants as quickly as our contractors can draft them, but only for doing experiments in high end algorithmic brute-forcing".

Would be nice if some of that dirt-cheap, low-emission, industrial capacity electricity was available for the rest of us.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)
  1. Tax them enough that they don't have the cash to just up and build their own personal-use nuclear powered, nation spanning infrastructure.

  2. Use those taxes to build a nation spanning nuclear infrastructure that everyone can use.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 22 hours ago

Eh, I would say investment into R&D should be encouraged and maybe allow tax write offs. Even of the end goal is a private power source. Once that R&D turns into workable, operable, sellable products, then tax the fuck out of them. Perhaps disallow making things that can be a boon to public infrastructure from being deem proprietary, so that it can be more easily adapted to public use.
I dunno, I'm typing from my couch after a few beers.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 22 hours ago

I've got so many ads so far for how adding new taxes is bad even if it pays for good things, and all of the issues they are arguing about aren't even adding any taxes. Actually adding taxes seems like a great way to make political enemies, even though it's often the best tool there is for a thing.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Plus time. My perspective was that building a new nuclear power industry and any significant number of reactors would take too long: we need to have fixed climate change in less time.

So seven “small” reactors over the next eleven years ….. faster than I expected but still takes decades to make a noticeable difference.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

So seven “small” reactors over the next eleven years ……

Is more than we've built in the last 40. And, assuming energy demands continue to accelerate, I doubt they'll be the last seven reactors these companies construct.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

To be fair here, no one's certain this will be cost-effective either. The new techs make it worth trying though.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

no one’s certain this will be cost-effective either

One of the great sins of nuclear energy programs implemented during the 50s, 60s, and 70s was that it was too cost effective. Very difficult to turn a profit on electricity when you're practically giving it away. Nuclear energy functions great as a kind-of loss-leader, a spur to your economy in the form of ultra-low-cost utilities that can incentivize high-energy consumption activities (like steel manufacturing and bulk shipping and commercial grade city-wide climate control). But its miserable as a profit center, because you can't easily regulate the rate of power generation to gouge the market during periods of relatively high demand. Nuclear has enormous up-front costs and a long payoff window. It can take over a decade to break even on operation, assuming you're operating at market rates.

By contrast, natural gas generators are perfect for profit-maximzing. Turning the electric generation on or off is not much more difficult than operating a gas stove. You can form a cartel with your friends, then wait for electric price-demand to peak, and command thousands of dollars a MWh to fill the sudden acute need for electricity. Natural gas plants can pay for themselves in a matter of months, under ideal conditions.

So I wouldn't say the problem is that we don't know their cost-efficiency. I'd say the problem is that we do know. And for consumer electricity, nuclear doesn't make investment sense. But for internally consumed electricity on the scale of industrial data centers, it is exactly what a profit-motivated power consumer wants.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

It's almost like the brand spanking new tech to make small nuclear reactors are extremely cost prohibitive and risky, and to lower the cost someone needs to spend money to increase supply.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If only that was the government that invested in the R&D and tech to make it happen.
Gaining funds from taxes (meaningful taxes), and investing that money in making their country better.

Hopefully this decision is because carbon taxes that will make consumer products representative of the actual cost of the item (not the exploitative cost). >

No no, let the free market decide.
Fucking AI threatening to replace basic jobs (when it's more suited to replace the C-Suite) gobling up energy and money, too-big-to-fail bailouts and loophole tax rules bullshit.

So yeh, someone needs to spend the money and that should be the government.
Because they should realise that carbon fuel sources are a death sentence.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I'm glad you don't make the decisions because I don't want my taxes, that I work hard for and pay money into, to be spent by the government on highly-likely dogshit experimental brand new nuke tech that may eventually cost more money later on to maintain, and I prefer they spend it renovating existing infrastructure or building tried/true legacy nuke plant designs.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Your taxes already go towards this.
That's how governments leverage capitalism to placate the people. Grants for green energy initiatives.
Private companies get free money for taking some amount of risk because they are likely to profit massively from it.
https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/nuclear/google-agrees-to-multi-reactor-power-deal-with-nuclear-startup-kairos
Kairos is getting free money (grants & tax breaks) and profits from this. Google is extremely likely (can't find a source) to be getting free money for this

Companies EXIST to extract profit.
Of one of the worlds most successful companies is doing this, it's because "line goes up".

I'd prefer this happend so that "humans survive".
But "humans don't die faster" is fine for now.

(I guess "humans" means "poor humans". As in anyone that doesn't outright own 2 homes.)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

The day I lost all respect for my father was when he told me in all seriousness that the fundamental purpose of capitalism was to make people happy.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don’t think they’re even building many. The article uses the word “adopt” because they’re kinda reviving old power plants. Three Mile Island being one of them.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

I don’t think they’re even building many.

You might want to read the article.

[–] [email protected] 59 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Fun Times! Because everyone pays for the waste and when something goes wrong. Privatizing Profits while Socializing Losses. The core motor of capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 day ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (2 children)

The cleanup for fossil fuels is an order of magnitude more expensive, and an order of magnitude more difficult. It also impacts so many things that its true cost is impossible to calculate.

I'm aware of the issues with nuclear, but for a lot of places it's the only low/zero emission tech we can do until we have a serious improvement in batteries.

Very few countries can have a large stable base load of renewable energy. Not every country has the geography for dams (which have their own massive ecological and environmental impacts) or geothermal energy.

Seriously, we need to cut emissions now. So what's the option that anti-nuclear people want? Continue to use fossil fuels and hope battery tech gets good enough, then expand renewables? That will take decades. Probably 30+ years at the minimum.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (8 children)

We’re talking 11 years for 7 “small” reactors. The first decade just to establish a business, but no real difference in the overall picture. How many years, decades after that to make a noticeable difference?

Meanwhile we’re building out more power generation in renewables every year. Renewables are already well developed, can be deployed quickly, and are already scaling up, renewables make a difference NOW.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (6 children)

Right but how about actually addressing the question?

What about base load then. It's all well and good building shit tons of solar panels and wind farms but sometimes you need energy and the sun isn't shining and it isn't windy. What do you do then?

That's why we need base load and I'd rather the base load came from nuclear than from fossil fuels, as I'm sure you would too, but you seem to be anti-nuclear as well, so what do you want?

I'm so sick of you eco warrior types with absolutely no understanding of the problem. It's not as if the internet doesn't exist it's not as if you couldn't educate yourself if you wanted to. People are out here trying to educate you all about it, and you cope by ignoring them.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You are totally ignoring their arguments. Not every place can do wind or solar or hydro. Like it’s simply not an option.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago

Everyone pays for not using nuclear too, a thousand fold more so.

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